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What's In President Obamas Gun Control Package?

Hits: 6108 | Rating: (1.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:47:14 AM
yup, nothing wrong with thinking how we educate people on a matter and generally can improve as a whole, but a lot of shouting going on without thought in it is going around also. my arguments where more aimed at that since emotional overreaction based on what the TV and paper is flashing doesn't lead to the best lines of thinking, or any worthwhile solutions.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:39:23 AM
american news, media and politics, exactly. too much flag waving in all it's senses.

and yes, it's possible, but car searches take time, i had some training in that and can say you either do a quick search and miss everything, or practically take apart the car and end up with a 10km chain of traffic and loads of unhappy people, which in turn leads to more protests, more whining, plus cost overruns, political debates that go nowhere and take years, so on. it basically ends up turning everything into american airports. yuck.
also our politicians are too busy blasting all our cash on beating dead horses and trying to unruin other countries that they themselves helped economically ruin, i'd rather it goes into fixing the busted social issues and poverty, not to mention just competant guards to keep people from getting beaten up in the subways and so on constantly. the sort of stuff we got rid of previously.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:33:27 AM
@VikingGuy

"but people fall through the cracks or get it by other means anyways, in the end it's just a irreparable flaw in any system."

Not contesting that. But there's no reason not to make the cracks as tight as we can.

People still crash cars, but we don't abolish the driving test because of that. If lots of people were crashing, we'd put serious thought into making the test tougher.

The same thinking is going on regarding guns in America right now. And rightfully so.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:29:46 AM
yup, background checks and police record check, it's fully reasonable. i wouldn't sell a weapon to someone with a criminal background either, or to some random junkie or someone with a history of mental illness. but people fall through the cracks or get it by other means anyways, in the end it's just a irreparable flaw in any system.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:29:42 AM
@VikingGuy

Surely borders can be secured without turning things into a totalitarian nightmare.

"checkpoints can't monitor every passing vehicle or search it."

They can if you spend enough to do that. It doesn't sound impossible to me. Expensive as all hell, yes, but not impossible.

The wilderness is harder, sure. But technology is a pretty grand thing. I would imagine you can do a whole lot of monitoring with all sorts of methods.

Would there be quite so much cigarette smuggling if people knew that the country's government had spent a LOT of money and made it policy that every single vehicle gets a search at the border?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:27:03 AM
@VikingGuy

"oh, i agree, it's people who feel some sort of need for it due to some background fear, but it's the same reason driving others to take it away, background fears."

The signs do seem to point towards people being irrationally afraid, and that's leading them to arm themselves in defence.

So what is it in American culture (and, to a lesser extent, our cultures) that is making them so afraid of "the criminal other"?

*takes a look at American news reporting, and at what their politicians say*

Oh yeah.

I mean...in this country at least, the statistics show that you're nearly 9 times more likely to kill yourself than someone else is to kill you. Yet the fear is of other people, and not ourselves?

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:26:45 AM
not my thing, but each to their own. i went and settled for just a normal girlfriend, no ties or obligations. learned the evils of that.

and securing borders is a nightmare unless you end up in a state like east germany used to be, which wasn't exactly grand, though the west had plenty of dratups also. there's plenty of wilderness around that people can simply march over or drive over and checkpoints can't monitor every passing vehicle or search it.
cigarette smuggling being a great example, people just load up cars with them and hope to not get stopped at the border and sell them for profit here, or they just go camping or whatever near the border, walk over and buy a load, walk back over uncontested and that's that.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:22:22 AM
@VikingGuy

Oh I'm not blaming the gun or the crowbar: I'm blaming whatever it is in the person that drove them to use those items.

But while we get to the bottom of that cause, we can mitigate the damage by keeping the gun or crowbar away from them.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:21:56 AM
oh, i agree, it's people who feel some sort of need for it due to some background fear, but it's the same reason driving others to take it away, background fears. the problem is it ends up an obsession for some, the same way football or some silly ex boyfriend/girlfriend might for others.
that's why i say a more realistic approach to education and responsibility is more productive. if we ban it it ends up something of a flag for idiot rebellious people who just have no clue what it even is in many ways, and the ones who already own it go stockpiling. if it's outlined realistically, then some of those people might see sense and go about a better method of defense and keep the big guns for the range or outdoors.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:20:04 AM
@VikingGuy

"also was my ex wifes family"

Oooh dear, that's a whole other heap of trouble.
I'd suggest joining my team, but that's no real benefit. We just have a different brand of crazy on this side of the fence.

"and hard drugs are all over our streets in spite of those laws, their legality doesn't end their presence at all"

No law is 100% enforcable, but that's no reason not to enforce it as much as possible.

Guns are pretty rare in the UK. I know we're an island and that makes smuggling things in a lot harder. But surely it's not impossible for countries with land borders.

Americans talk about banning guns being possible because of their vast unsecured border allowing illegal guns to be brought in...well, they've identified the problem, haven't they? It's not a fatal flaw. There's no reason they couldn't get the border secure if they genuinely wanted to.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:16:19 AM
and horrible events like sandy hook pale next to some of the atrocities i saw that eventually lead to me leaving my old job. i can say it wasn't the guns causing it, it was just blind hatred and misguided blame exploited by a few charismatic people to further their own gains. sandy hook and other incidents before it are similar in some ways, pent up hatred, want for vengeance, or just a last desperate act for some reason or another. again, it's like blaming the crowbar instead of looking at what made them go use it in that manner and attempting to see what we can do on a community level to prevent it before it even pops into their mind. no solution has a 100% chance success rate, but stepping on rights or binning everyone of a certain interest together is more likely to further resentment.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:15:16 AM
@VikingGuy

No argument when it comes to defence against wild animals, nor for hunting. Not personally my cup of tea, but it's not something I'd complain against.

For home defence, however, your points are exactly on the money.

And if those who are avid gun supporters are so concerned about home defence, then they'd be willing to open their wallets to pay to substantially strengthen their police force, so there wouldn't be so many criminals for them to defend against in the first place.

But we know that's not really what they want. What they really want is the macho fantasy of blowing someone away.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:10:33 AM
also was my ex wifes family that broke in in that incident, as apparently they seemed to not understand the german laws on what i owned before the marriage being mine after it as well, or on her being unregistered here having a meaning. as i said, long story, but in any case, yes, getting married, piss poor idea. don't do it.

also yes, society is getting more drated up, but i wouldn't blame freedom for it, that tends to end up in a dangerous mess known of as dictatorship, germany had it's fun with that. keeping weapons away isn't possible as we know due to illegal imports, so on, but encouraging safe handling and education can make a difference.
and hard drugs are all over our streets in spite of those laws, their legality doesn't end their presence at all. i´m more for pursuing the dealer, not the user. nuclear weapons, the world's greatest madmen already have full control over those nightmares.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:06:17 AM
@McGovern1981

"According to the royal family and you buy that?"

Erm, no. According to the Office for National Statistics...which I'm pretty safe in assuming is not run by Queen Lizzy.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 9:01:29 AM
i see them having a place as a tool for defense, i carry my revolver as well as a rifle when hunting as an angry boar isn't something i feel like dealing with with a clumsy long gun in the forest or anywhere else tight. for home defense it's sort of silly for a few reasons though. one being people forget guns are loud, fire your shotgun indoors and you´ll have the same ring in your ears i do after, it does not go away, not fun. also walls aren't indestructable barriers, most in houses or apartments are thin and accidentally killing your neighbor isn't going to work out well. i can see keeping a small .22 or .25 for defense if you really feel a need for it, but firearms instruction on how, when and where it's okay to apply it's use is something i agree with.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 12707 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:58:25 AM
The royal family brings us a net profit via tourism. If anything, they support us.


According to the royal family and you buy that?



That applies to more than Como it seems.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:53:14 AM
@VikingGuy

"and let's face it, there's something wrong with western society"

Correct. I'd even go so far as to say that many of our societies are displaying signs of collective mental illness.

While finding and implementing a cure should be the main focus, don't we also keep weapons away from the mentally ill for safety reasons?

Yes, freedom says you can have weapons in America, but doesn't freedom come with responsibilities, and don't horrible occurances like the Sandy Hook shootings suggest that too many people aren't being responsible with that freedom?

Where is the tipping point, where the majority decide that there are too many people being irresponsible with that particular freedom for it to be worthwhile? Is it just a numbers game?

After all, you're not free to take hard drugs are you? Nor are you free to own a nuclear weapon. Freedom DOES come with limits sometimes.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:45:56 AM
@VikingGuy

"thanks, everyone has a right to their opinion but simply dislike being binned in with the loonies who go on rampages just over what hobbies i have"

I've no issue with guns as a hobby. There's a gun range near my work, and I'm actually tempted to join up, because it looks fun.

Guns as a defence tool, however, I disagree with.

"and mostly just to steal and damage what they couldn't steal and possibly try and rough me up, and it was targeted at me, long story."

Would you agree that the best way you could have stayed safe was to avoid whatever actions/associations led to them targetting you, rather than need to arm yourself to deal with them when they do?

Kinda like Canada vs America when it comes to foreign policy. America needs its big military because it's made a lot of enemies. Canada has gone for the far safer and far cheaper approach of not making enemies in the first place...because after all, who'

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2738 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:39:46 AM
@McGovern1981

"You support a royal family and there's been an increasing amount of roits in N. Ireland but ya keep your head in the sand."

The royal family brings us a net profit via tourism. If anything, they support us.

Northern Ireland is tamer than most of your cities. :P

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:38:44 AM
and let's face it, there's something wrong with western society, and it isn't the guns. lot of poverty popping up, lot of unrest, lot of corruption, lot of people leading pooty unhappy lives looking where to put the blame. hyping up more fear, more hatred and more petty conflicts regardless if it's about race, religion, abortion, guns, video games, or whatever else is certainly not a way to resolve it.

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:32:27 AM
also yes, its the issues in society that need to be addressed and i agree that a gun isn't the best way to go about it. it's more of a last resort or fallback option should things really get out of hand.

also the whole nobody "needs" this and nobody "needs" that. you also do not require a computer, or the internet, or electricity, or a car, or this or that. yet you have it anyways because you want to. the AR-15s popularity in the united states is to do with a different variation of it being used by the US military. not to mention, it's a US product and therefore quite common there, the same way Saiga brand weapons are common in russia, or HK in germany, or CZ in the czech republic.
also the debate on "assault" weapons is a media term and quite a stupid one. assaults in a military sense date back to ancient history. one could argue a bronze sword is an assault weapon as the greeks assaulted troy using them. research things for yourselves instea

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 12707 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:22:13 AM
@FoolsPrussia

Like Eric Holder??? If that were you or me where would we be now?

VikingGuy
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2395 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 8:19:29 AM
@ musuko
thanks, everyone has a right to their opinion but simply dislike being binned in with the loonies who go on rampages just over what hobbies i have, too many people can't see beyond their own petty interests or self centered ideas of what drove an event to happen. puts the blame and punishment on the wrong people for the wrong reasons.
and mostly just to steal and damage what they couldn't steal and possibly try and rough me up, and it was targeted at me, long story.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3156 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 7:45:20 AM
Except megrendel's cartoon has nothing to do with this conversation. Most of the executive orders are meant to keep that criminal from getting that gun, and the law abiding citizen gets to keep those guns.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 12707 Posts
Friday, January 18, 2013 7:37:30 AM
(Damn it!!) **riots**

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