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5 Facts About Guns, Schools, & Violence

Hits: 7718 | Rating: (2.2) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26667 Posts
Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:30:01 PM
Never needed a gun,

@CreamK: Well lucky you! Neither have I actually, lucky me too!
But every year, in every country on Earth, there is:
Rape
Murder
Assault
Robbery
People hit by lightning.

Is that last one a joke? No. We pass laws to PUNISH those who offend, to prevent them from raping & etc again.
If we passed a laws requiring everyone to carry a lightning rod around with them, would that be a good idea? It might save a life or two, but at what cost?
Insted we allow people the FREEDOM to determine how to PROTECT themselves. From rape or lightning.

Banning guns removes that freedom. It takes away that protection BY FORCE.

Or limits it exclusively to "the rich". You like that idea? I don't.


Modwain
Male, 30-39, Europe
 304 Posts
Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:57:28 AM
in all fariness, how much i dont like guns and i am for stricter gun laws, i have no thought what so ever that it wont create a safer world. its not just gun control to keep people from killing eachother. yes with a gun it is easier, but in all fairness, bombs work too, hell a metal bar works..
so, stricter gun laws? i am for it, will it prevent mass masacre's like sandy hook? well, i hope so but in all fairness, it will only make it harder, and not by much.

I guess the discussion should be how we can prevent sandy hooks, not how we limit or promote gun use.

(that being said, if you cant get a gun, you cant use it either, but thats my 2 cents)

CreamK
Male, 40-49, Europe
 1235 Posts
Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:37:28 AM
It only takes one 5Cat to ruin a perfectly good message... For once some kind of rationality, even when it's pro-gun (i think) and i'm anti, this kind of discussion presented in the video is useful.. But bad monsters at every corner, man you're delusional (or was it conservative, you know the people who are more afraid, a fact that's been proven...). Never needed a gun, have been pointed at them at worst possible situations, never needed violence even when threatened and never had to beg or give out any of my possession (got some bumb and bruises and a lot of pride)... I've had enough experience to know that the world we both live in, is a relatively safe place indeed. No need to be frightened, at all.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26667 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:26:19 PM
@madduck: "In a perfect world,everyone would think just like me!"

Yeah, and? Teh world aint perfect, bad monsters loom at every corner. When seconds count? The police are 10 minutes away...

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 6126 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:34:15 PM
Problem is McGovern- that reasoning works well if I am the only one with the only gun. But everone thinks that- so they all have guns too, which is worse than none of us having 'em...

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26667 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:24:29 PM
@patchy: It seems Obama has called for MORE SROs, armed police inside schools, so go argue with HIM ok?

An armed SRO in Virginia Tech MIGHT have stopped a mass killing, but they were "gun free", it's a fact.
An armed SRO at Newton MIGHT have prevented a mass killing, but (iirc) they were a "gun free zone" also.
Aurora theater? Gun Free Zone.

So yes, sometimes guns CAN stop mass killings. No guarentee, nothing in this world is. Except taxes, and death...

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 1:17:39 PM
But I certainly do not trust the bloody general public... do you?


Pretty sure that's a reason to own a gun.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:22:27 PM
They don't honestly care if schools "get safer" as witnessed by their push for "gun free zones", IN SCHOOLS. It's propoganda.[sic]

That sentence is propaganda, you're assuming that more guns would have prevented this from happening, which is conjecture. I wonder how many guns would be stolen if students knew a teacher's desk contained one?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:16:59 PM
@5cats: I'm quite certain there were no strawman arguments made by me here. If the goal is to reduce the number of school shootings, then many of their points are irrelevant.

they want to restrict and/or overturn the 2nd amendment, period.

Ok, this argument has no legs. News flash: They ALREADY restrict the 2nd amendment. Prisoners, convicted felons and mentally ill have their right taken away, people cannot own things like automatic weapons, so the requirements for restriction are inherently arbitrary. Since the right is subject to arbitrary restriction, it follows that other arbitrary restriction is socially acceptable if enough of the population supports it. So go cry about them losing rights that don't apply to you all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you aren't crying about these other restrictions of the 2nd amendment.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26667 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:55:20 AM
@FoolsPrussia: Forcing private citizens to register ALL gun sales? Who exactly is going to PAY for that?
Canada tried registration, it cost a FORTUNE and did NOTHING. Since it was repealed? NO increase in gun deaths.

@madduck: About 100 million Americans already own guns, yet only a TINY % of them have caused harm. Of that group: those that cause harm ALREADY have ILLEGAL guns! One way or another: criminals will ALWAYS have weapons.

The question is: should citizens be "allowed" to protect themselves & their families?

@dang007: You are correct! This is the same mentality that caused "prohibition" and look how well THAT worked!
Also the "War On Drugs" has totally worked as well, eh?
I'm sure the "War On Guns" will bring utopia to the USA!

New buzzword: "gun safety" laws...

carmium
Female, 50-59, Canada
 6406 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:07:51 AM
From across the border, I'm looking at something resembling a vast heard of horses bounding around a million-acre ranch, and the President standing at one of several doors on the barn, threatening to close it.

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 6126 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:57:00 AM
No McGovern- I try my best not to trust anyone without reason. But I certainly do not trust the bloody general public... do you?

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 594 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:47:16 AM
cut off again.

We should make laws based on evidence that supports the idea that the legislation solves or reduces the problem targeted.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 594 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:46:56 AM
>>>I see nothing here that contradicts the idea that we should have mandatory background checks and close the gun show loophole.<<<

Then I suggest you miss the point. You, and I do not mean you specifically but your side in general, have not provided any thing to support the idea that doing so would have a positive effect.

This goes to the heart of the argument being made by the media, folks like Randi Rhodes and Piers Morgan, "Why do you 'need' an 'insert gun name here?'" They seem to indicate that if a gun owner can not justify, in their opinion, why gun X is 'needed' than the right to own gun X should be eliminated. This is a preposterous way to make legislation. If this were the standard we should easily be able to make the argument that alcohol and tobacco products should be banned, and perhaps I can finally ban ties as well. We should make laws based on evidence that supports the idea that the legislation solves or reduces the

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3402 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:26:53 AM
I don't disagree with a lot of what they're saying, but they are also looking at this from a narrow perspective. I see nothing here that contradicts the idea that we should have mandatory background checks and close the gun show loophole. If we're going to implement laws to keep people safer, those laws have to have teeth. You can't expect any gun control measures to be effective if criminals can easily get their hands on them in the next state.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26667 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:58:10 AM
@patchy: Perhaps because the "new laws" have NOTHING to do with "school shootings" eh?

#1 "School Shootings" is just a gun-grabber "buzzword" to cover-up their true intentions. They don't honestly care if schools "get safer" as witnessed by their push for "gun free zones", IN SCHOOLS. It's propoganda.
These are the exact same people, they haven't suddenly "changed their tune" they want to restrict and/or overturn the 2nd amendment, period.

These "limits" Obama will anounce? They'll do just that: limit law-abiding freedoms while NOT making children one iota safer.
High-capacity magazines? Which school shooters used those? Columbine? Nope. Virginia tech? Nope. Newton? Nope. Which ones I ask?

Strawman: funny how you "see mine" but think your own are real men.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10349 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:54:40 AM
the number of school shootings hasn't declined, so what's the point?


Since no one has asserted that they've increased, a possible conclusion is that such incidents have received increased scrutiny since the 90s.

Schools are safer?


They're maybe too little we can do to reduce the frequency, but why do you think that's important? The schools themselves have already put forth significant effort to reduce casualties in such events.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:01:54 AM
Generally speaking the public are not to be trusted with very much at all...


SO put that trust in politicians ROFL!!!

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 6126 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:53:41 AM
If the facts and figures he gives are correct, and they are not either overshadowed by other facts or heavily manipulated then this is a good thing. No one should support laws which are not backed up by evidence and good sense- reactionary laws are usually bad laws. However- this argument goes both ways- if in fact mass shootings are down, then there is no need to put guns into schools or even more into the hands of the public. Generally speaking the public are not to be trusted with very much at all...

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:00:28 AM
This used to be called common sense....


Pretty cute the government can order 450 million rounds of .40 cal hollow points for homeland security which don't follow the Geneva convention but they insist on telling citizens what they should and should not own.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:43:35 AM
...shootings, we should just give up on mental health programs too.

School shootings are UP in the USA @patchy? Your source 'svp'?

I never said that, don't strawman this discussion. Just because they aren't up doesn't mean they shouldn't go down, I would have thought you'd know that.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:41:51 AM
@5cats: You're just regurgitating their points, which don't have any bearing on SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.
"We must make schools safer" which implies they are becoming "more dangerous".

Actually that only implies that they want to make them safer. You're just inferring that they mean schools are getting worse.
Because schools are where the unarmed victems[sic] are.

What? That had nothing to do with gun free zones, and the amount of assaults in a school has nothing to do with school shootings, so you still aren't addressing the point of contention.
They've been saying for 50+ years that more guns = more crime & more laws = less crime.

Some may be saying this, but AGAIN it's not the point. The point is fewer SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.
"Hey, that law was useless, and cost a fortune."

You may be right, but then since the mental health system isn't identifying these people before the

drawman61
Male, 50-59, Europe
 6288 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:30:46 AM
One death from a gun is one too many whichever way you try to justify it. But, if it stops your corrupt government from its dictatorship of the world, maybe I'll look the other way.

Vexys
Male, 18-29, Europe
 74 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:22:44 AM
cant verify the veracity as its just the most immediate source I've found of evidence corroborating my point after a quick google search. Plus its from '99 and as Im not a US citizen there may well of been laws or regulations put in place since then to diminish this.

None the less....

Link

Vexys
Male, 18-29, Europe
 74 Posts
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 4:09:59 AM
@AuburnJunkey, not gonna throw my hat down one way or the other but surely adjoining states with more lax gun control is a contributing factor to gun crime rates in Illinois and DC?

Not gonna just make a number up as I have no source but with free travel between states surely it must be contributing even if in a smalll amount

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