 OldOllie
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
 8749 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 12:19:09 PM
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 HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 12:16:54 PM
@HolyGod
Let's outlaw 100 round barrel magazines. If manufacturers couldn't produce them their availability would go down drastically.
Perhaps it will help if I am more specific in my criticisms of your "solutions".
First, let's look at mass shootings in the US that have used 100+ capacity magazines. I've gone back as far as 1989 so far and I see 1 (Aurora). Next, let's see how many mass shootings used (not just had, but actually used) more than 2 firearms. While it's a little more difficult to find stats on guns used vs. those in possession, it appears that the vast majority of mass shootings use exclusively or almost exclusively 2 firearms at most (most actually only use 1).
Your solutions are silly. They're like saying: we have a problem with counterfeit $20 bills. We should get rid of $100 dollar bills.
... and I'm supposed to go along with this why? |
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 5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
16973 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 12:10:33 PM
They kill THEMSELVES. They don't kill 20 kindergarteners.
You get the difference right? I fully support every individuals right to make personal choices with consequences for themselves.
@HolyGod: Tell that to @patchy and @FoolsPrussia! Lolz! Kinda ironic, eh?
Again I repeat: taking guns away doesn't prevent suicides AT ALL. So why include them with a discussion about GUN VIOLENCE & mass killings? >>Because he's talking about one thing, and quoting stats for a different thing!
>>Does one add suicides to the number of murders? They both "cause death" right? But they're different things, yes? |
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 12:06:56 PM
HG: if the sandy hook shooter had only one gun maybe we would have 8 dead kindergartners instead of 20.
Wishful thinking, like yours, wouldn't changed the outcome of that day. Your stuck on the stupid idea that 'guns' are the problem. The lack of guns in the UK hasn't lowered their violent crime rate, which is the highest in the EU.
What you're talking about makes about as much sense as this.
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HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 11:53:34 AM
So there are places where this does not happen. COME ON.
However, you ignore the OBVIOUS by comparing the two: they are different countries. The culture is different; they have different demographics; there are stark geographical differences, etc.
By comparing the two, you imply that a causative link exists between "strict" gun laws and an absence of mass shootings. Yet, there are countries with "lax" gun laws that do not have these problems either. So, at best, you can hope for a correlation between these variables.
In your own word: COME ON. |
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 HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2912 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 11:38:39 AM
McGovern1981
"So you can't go on a killing spree with one rifle and one handgun????? News to me!"
Holy s.hit dude. Gen regulation will not stop mass killings. It will not stop murder. I am not an idealistic moron.
However if the sandy hook shooter had only one gun maybe we would have 8 dead kindergartners instead of 20. If you don't think that is better than maybe you should talk to the parents. |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2912 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36:46 AM
HumanAction
"What then, if there is no such solution?"
Well they don't have theater, school, and mall massacres in England do they? Japan? China? France?
So there are places where this does not happen. COME ON. |
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 McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10249 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:52:17 AM
Ever wonder why the media seems to be reporting shootings and gun crime more and more often with UN small arms treaty talks approaching? |
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HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:48:13 AM
@Finker
The army as a whole didn't have qualms about taking on civillians with guns. If that is different in the US then why not just rely on the fact that the army won't turn on civillians.
The Wermacht, as in the German army, did not turn on their own citizens. In fact, by most accounts, they were considered an honorable fighting force by the Allies; their name was forever tarnished by the POLICE FORCE known as the Schutzstaffel.
If modern history is any indication, it is far more likely for a police force to attack citizens than an army. Therefore, the argument must be regarding the proposed firepower of police rather than military. |
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 El_Chinche
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
461 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:46:53 AM
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HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:45:04 AM
@HolyGod
The left proposes things to try to stop that from happening. Then you guys say no. But I notice you never really propose any solutions yourself.
In many cases, it is better to propose no solution than bad solutions. Of course, you assume that there exists a solution to the problem. What then, if there is no such solution? Then, inaction is far more preferable to action.
You can only have one hand gun and one rifle
What of the farmer who enjoys hunting deer and must also tend to prairie dogs on his land? Certainly he should be allowed two rifles such as a .223 and a .300.
This fascination with magazine size and "assault" rifles, despite their relatively infrequent use in gun violence, amuses me. |
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 Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
480 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:44:49 AM
@McGovern, I was just saying it wasn't having a gun that allowed him to achieve what he did, if he had pulled that gun then he wouldn't have achieved anything. The army as a whole didn't have qualms about taking on civillians with guns. If that is different in the US then why not just rely on the fact that the army won't turn on civillians. If they do, then they are much better equipped than in the past. |
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10249 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:42:32 AM
You can only have one hand gun and one rifle
So you can't go on a killing spree with one rifle and one handgun????? News to me! |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2912 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:33:32 AM
Mcgovern1981
"Or mabey you could look at the person and what caused them to do such a thing."
Well that isn't a solution now is it. What is your solution?
Because here is one I have. You can only have one hand gun and one rifle, like they do in Israel. Let's also say they must be in a locked gun safe. That way when the sandy hook shooter went to his law abiding mother's "arsenal" he wouldn't have had access. Even if he forced her to open it he would have only gotten one hand gun and one rifle.
Perhaps he wouldn't have been able to do nearly as much damage.
Let's outlaw 100 round barrel magazines. If manufacturers couldn't produce them their availability would go down drastically. Would they still be available on the black market? Sure. But they would be much harder to get. Perhaps the aurora shooter wouldn't have been able to get one.
See those are possible solutions. Now if you don't like them counter with some |
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 madduck
Female, 40-49, Europe
2871 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:28:18 AM
Mmm- well- you still need to do some research Duckie. Parts of the EU, and to some degree the Euro are having as much trouble as the US- but last time I looked the UK still had the £ and we are not anywhere like as bad as many other countries- it is doubtful we will be either. But- we are all Europe I suppose- so some of us have guns... aren't we the lucky ones. |
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10249 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:16:44 AM
He achieved more with his brain than the gun though.
So if that fails just give up?
@HolyGod
Or mabey you could look at the person and what caused them to do such a thing. How will more laws help when the killer broke the ones in place? |
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Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
480 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:12:02 AM
@McGovern, and Schindler had a gun. He achieved more with his brain than the gun though. |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2912 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:10:24 AM
McGovern1981
"Lets just ignore history it's not like it repeats itself......"
So then if it does you are OK with rooms full of dead 6 year olds every once in a while?
Because here is what I know. The left proposes things to try to stop that from happening. Then you guys say no. But I notice you never really propose any solutions yourself.
So it sounds to me like you are basically saying you accept mall, theater, and school shootings as a necessary evil to keep the 2nd amendment as un-infringed as possible. Is that accurate?
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10249 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 10:03:52 AM
McGovern- go back to school. Schindlers list- Jews- all that stuff? Germany dear- not England. The Nazi party were VOTED into power because Germany was in economic meltdown. If you must invoke faulty analogies then at least put a bit of effort into it..
Economic meltdown kinda like the EU huh. It was Germany so something similar could never happen in the UK. Lets just ignore history it's not like it repeats itself...... |
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10249 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 9:58:50 AM
you have also said previously that this couldn't happen in the US not because the people carried guns but because the military with the heavy artillary would not carry out the orders of the government
Well that all depends on the situation. Germany did have people who refused to carry out orders like ummmm hmmm who's that guy oh ya Schindler!! |
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McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10249 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 9:55:29 AM
Warsaw rebellion shows otherwise they lost and if beter armed probably still would have but they would've definatly been quite the pain. It beats the alternative they had. |
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madduck
Female, 40-49, Europe
2871 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 9:48:47 AM
McGovern- go back to school. Schindlers list- Jews- all that stuff? Germany dear- not England. The Nazi party were VOTED into power because Germany was in economic meltdown. If you must invoke faulty analogies then at least put a bit of effort into it.. |
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Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
480 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 9:32:43 AM
@McGovern1981, you have also said previously that this couldn't happen in the US not because the people carried guns but because the military with the heavy artillary would not carry out the orders of the government. Seems that is not always the case, you can't have it both ways. |
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 klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
647 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 9:31:06 AM
@CrackrJak - "selective extrication of text", is a bold statement from someone completely making up a quote.
@Cajun247 - The cite supports a fair and true discussion about gun control. Calling me ignorant for wanting that shows how low you value honesty and truth in society.
Adams is speaking of private defense, not of hoarding weapons so that one day you may be able to play Rambo against the US or any other country.
I am surprised at the logic> "the army and police need bigger guns to do their job properly"..."I need bigger guns to protect myself from the Army and Police who now have bigger guns" |
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Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
480 Posts
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Friday, January 11, 2013 9:30:46 AM
@McGovern1981, yes, that all sadly happened despite lots of armies with guns opposing it. |
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