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Let's Take A Look At REAL Crime Stats, Thank You

Hits: 9366 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Pooptart19
Page: 13 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 4:09:38 PM
Stealing an apple isn't the same as sex. You should've paid attention in sex ed.

So you equate consenting sex with rape? Now I see why we disagree so fervently.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 4:07:26 PM
"Yes, now I'm being an ass because you refuse to acknowledge your defeat" - lol. stop being a dumbass.

Stealing an apple isn't the same as sex. You should've paid attention in sex ed.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:59:30 PM
Well shucks, let's just take a look at legal definitions then - since you are so preoccupied with them.

Theft - A criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent.

Rape - A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will.

So, considering the legal definitions, isn't rape also theft? Or, perhaps you are one of those people that believes a woman's body and sexuality does not belong to her? Or, perhaps you think that all women are consenting?

Yes, now I'm being an ass because you refuse to acknowledge your defeat.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:55:59 PM
You are confusing your definition of theft and illegal/unlawful actions

This is probably the stupidest thing you've said. I have clearly shown that my argument lays within the scope of the definition I've provided. I have also clearly shown that I do not consider the definition I've provided to be legally binding. At this point, you are being willfully ignorant.

and think that acting like a dumbass makes it ok

I take it that you have no counter argument again? This seems to be your go-to reaction in such cases... such a shame.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:51:01 PM
Once again, I'm not using your definition. I'm not arguing what you think words mean b/c we'll never get anywhere.

You are confusing your definition of theft and illegal/unlawful actions, with the actual legal definitions and think that acting like a dumbass makes it ok.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:44:06 PM
Rape isn't just illegal, it's a human rights abuse. Unlawful

I know... I have never stated that rape is legal.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:43:05 PM
Rape doesn't "fit under the definition of theft". Rape is Rape.

If this is your new argument, perhaps you should be arguing that the presented definition of theft is incorrect. I would then ask you to present your own definition.

The other possible argument you can have is that rape does not fit the definition of theft given. If this is your argument, you should elaborate. I have given reason enough to conclude that rape fits the definition I've provided.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:41:52 PM
Rape isn't just illegal, it's a human rights abuse. Unlawful

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:40:12 PM
Once again, I'm not arguing what you believe.

Rape doesn't "fit under the definition of theft". Rape is Rape.


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:37:35 PM
Holy Hell man. Law is linked to inalienable Human rights (LIfe liberty POH) that can't be taken away, ever. Gitmo is unlawful, so is the redaction of Habeus Corpus.

Legal code is what certain societies impose as mutual agreement. Walking on public property is never unlawful, but trespassing on certain public lands is considered illegal by society.


I have absolutely no idea what point you are attempting to convey with these statements.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:35:30 PM
Simple sentence structure my friend; this is where you've erred. Follow along...

I said this:

Rape, in it's essence, is a very specific type of theft. It is the forceful taking of ones property without consent.

So, what can we glean from this statement? First, we see that the definition of THEFT being presenting is "the forceful taking of ones property without consent." Next, we see that I claim that rape fits this definition. Therefore, I've concluded that rape is a specific subset of theft, given the definition stated.

By the way, I consider a woman's body and sexuality to be her property. They belong to the woman. A rapist forcibly takes these.

That should help clear things up a bit for you.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:34:58 PM
Holy Hell man. Law is linked to inalienable Human rights (LIfe liberty POH) that can't be taken away, ever. Gitmo is unlawful, so is the redaction of Habeus Corpus.

Legal code is what certain societies impose as mutual agreement. Walking on public property is never unlawful, but trespassing on certain public lands is considered illegal by society.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:31:31 PM
"I totally agree with you. Legally, rape is not theft. However, given the definition I've provided (and you have implicitly agreed to), rape can be philosophically linked to theft."

"Rape, in it's essence, is a very specific type of theft. It is the forceful taking of ones property without consent."

It's not your definition of rape that we follow.


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:26:17 PM
There's also a difference between legality and law that you don't seem to understand...

Would you care to elaborate?

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:24:58 PM
There's also a difference between legality and law that you don't seem to understand...

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:23:11 PM
The problem is HA, that you are mixing your personal philosophies with Laws dictated by the constitution.

Do you have a particular instance of such a situation? I would be happy to either show you where you erred, or redact the statement in which I mispoke.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:22:01 PM
I basically am a child aren't I. That's why I don't talk about "the philosophical definition of rape"

So, because you are young, you cannot possibly have the mental capacity to think abstractly? I now find myself pitying you. Perhaps you simply lack the maturity to remove your emotions from logic?

Also philosophy is fine for yourself, but it doesn't justify unlawful action.

Who said it did? I never said legality, did I? This was purposeful. Obviously, if someone is dicussing lifespan in the terms of property, the discussion is philosophical. I don't know how that could have eluded you.

Also, what you are saying is that an apple may be a fruit but philosophically, it could be a vegetable, because it has leaves.

If you define a vegetable as something that has leaves, then philosophically yes. I am not sure why you would do this though.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:19:50 PM
The problem is HA, that you are mixing your personal philosophies with Laws dictated by the constitution. I'm not arguing your philosophies, I could care less. What I am arguing is the word of Law.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:17:35 PM
Once again rape isn't theft. Maybe to you it is, but according to the word of law it isn't. It's assault.

Once again, I totally agree with you. Legally, rape is not theft. However, given the definition I've provided (and you have implicitly agreed to), rape can be philosophically linked to theft. I'm not sure where I've lost you.

This is why there needs to be some sort of basic training before you can own a gun. People don't know the actual laws, and make poo up.

I agree. People such as yourself, with the seeming inability to seperate philosophy and legality should not own firearms. Such situations would be incredibly dangerous.

So, on that regard, I completely support you.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:16:40 PM
18-29, I basically am a child aren't I. That's why I don't talk about "the philosophical definition of rape" Also philosophy is fine for yourself, but it doesn't justify unlawful action. NeoNazi's have philosophy of ethnic cleansing.

Also, what you are saying is that an apple may be a fruit but philosophically, it could be a vegetable, because it has leaves.


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:14:58 PM
As an 18-29 relatively athletic, not pretty male, I know that I will probably not be raped. Hence, I am not quick to use rape scenarios to justify my arguments about guns.

As an athletic, 24 year old, 6'2", 200lb male, I know that I will probably not get pregnant. Hence, I should never use a pregnancy scenario in an argument? That's pretty messed up logic my friend. Seems emotionally driven rather than driven by logic and reason.

You brought up rape as evidence against the idea that the right to life is superior to the right to liberty in the form of liberty to own property.

You stated that life trumps liberty; you put no clause on it stating that the scope of your claim was only property. Do you wish to add that now? I can come up with equally appalling scenarios using these restrictions if you'd like.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:07:55 PM
As an 18-29 relatively athletic, not pretty male, I know that I will probably not be raped. Hence, I am not quick to use rape scenarios to justify my arguments about guns.

You brought up rape as evidence against the idea that the right to life is superior to the right to liberty in the form of liberty to own property.

Once again rape isn't theft. Maybe to you it is, but according to the word of law it isn't. It's assault.

This is why there needs to be some sort of basic training before you can own a gun. People don't know the actual laws, and make poo up.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:01:44 PM
that's why it's not called grand theft or auto theft.

By this logic, an apple is not a fruit because it is not called an apple fruit.

However, we know that it is both an apple and a fruit. Why? Because apple is a specific kind of fruit. Philosophically, rape is a specific kind of theft.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 3:00:10 PM
If you are attacked, go ahead and shoot.

This directly conflicts with your previous statement, which I used the rape comparison to disprove:

Nothing trumps life. It is at a minimum equal to liberty.

If you stand by this, then you must believe that a living rapist is preferable to a dead would-be rapist. In order to not conflict in your statements, you should redact one.

If you don't like being called a dumbass, then don't say dumbass poo

I'm fine being called whatever you wish to call me; I've been called much worse. However, I should point out that you are acting like a petulant child.

In all of this, you have yet to state which of the scenarios you prefer. Perhaps you are aware that it is a catch-22. If you prefer the first, you concede to my point. If you prefer the second, you contradict yourself.

So, go ahead and choose.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 2:55:13 PM
@klaxor

Your mom, not you.

You told me to talk to a rape victim, not become a rape victim. Are you now advocating that I become a rape victim...? I guess I am confused by your general lack of direction.

that's why I don't equate rape to property crime

Who did that? I never said "rape and burglary are the same thing". If I did, can you please provide the quote for it? What I said was, if you define theft as an unlawful and forcible taking, then rape is a specific subset of theft. This is reasonable.

You keep equating life to property.

No; I stated that, in order to obtain property, one must generally trade time. Time can be construed as a piece of your entire life (because it is). Again, I'm not sure where you got lost.

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