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Assault Rifle Vs. Sporting Rifle

Hits: 7816 | Rating: (2.2) | Category: Technology | Added by: Crabes
Page: 1 24 5 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:02:23 PM
MrPeabody - you present a separatist, an individual who wants nothing to do with American society, as a "citizen", knowing full well that when presented with over 20 pages of reading, most people won't read past page 2 and then skip to the end. Separatist does mean something different than supremacist, I'll give you that, but Weaver also ran for public office, which cuts away at that argument.

Of course he will claim he's not a supremacist in court. But when you have signs that say "White Power Reigns Supreme" , and state the belief that the "African race is full of sinners and mud people"(from your source), you def believe that you are superior. The only reason he wasn't full-blown supremacist was b/c he believed that the world was going to end.

Also, the shotguns were shorter b/c he ILLEGALLY sawed them off. And in his defense, Randy stated that he didn't saw the shotguns, not b/c it was illegal, but b/c he thought the guy was an agent.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:58:21 AM
So by your definition laws against murder restrict my liberty of being bale to kill someone?

Yes, but it is acceptable to restrict a liberty which infringes on the liberties of another. For example, if you kill someone, you have infringed on their liberty (right to life). Therefore, society can and should restrict that liberty.

However, simply owning a firearm or bump stock does not infringe in the rights of others. Killing someone else with a firearm using that bump stock infringes on their rights; therefore, the act of using that stock to commit a crime should be illegal. It should not be illegal to possess it.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10210 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:27:23 AM
Guns like the ones I posted video of serve NO GREATER GOOD. Certainly not one that outweighs the harm they pose.


The law does not serve any greater good either as it will simply mean more weapons will be owned illegally, and it won't decrease the level of violence.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4830 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:13:09 AM
MrPeabody

"they will will resort to flamethrowers (Cologne massacre), IEDs (Columbine), Dynamite (Bath), propane tanks, pipe bombs, Gasoline, Construction equipment, Airplanes or whatever else they can dream up."

Perhaps. Although I think to a certain degree these crazies are playing out fantasies whether it is the matrix or video games. I AM NOT SAYING THOSE THING CAUSE SHOOTINGS. I HATE that excuse. However, I do think they want to play out that fantasy. I don't think other methods would be as attractive.

Also, the things you listed are either illegal, or serve a valuable purpose. Sometimes the greater good (cars) outweigh the detriment (car accidents). Guns like the ones I posted video of serve NO GREATER GOOD. Certainly not one that outweighs the harm they pose.

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:54:22 AM
Had They not had access to guns they most assuredly would have focused on using the IEDs they had made.

"The investigation determined that Harris and Klebold placed two 20-lb. propane tank bombs in the cafeteria the morning of April 20. Computer modeling substantiated by field testing indicated that had those two large 20-lb. propane bombs detonated with a cafeteria full of students, most would have been killed or severely injured by the resulting blasts and subsequent fireballs. There were approximately 488 students in the cafeteria at 11:17 a.m. on April 20, the time the bombs were set to detonate. In addition to the casualties caused by the explosions, the computer models demonstrated a strong likelihood of structural damage and partial collapse of the cafeteria and possible library above."
Source CNN

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:39:03 AM
I'm more worried about suburban kids f.ucked up in the head. THOSE are the people that actually pose a threat to me and my family. THOSE people use legal guns in their shootings.


And when those (insane) people cannot obtain guns, they will will resort to flamethrowers (Cologne massacre), IEDs (Columbine), Dynamite (Bath), propane tanks, pipe bombs, Gasoline, Construction equipment, Airplanes or whatever else they can dream up.

It doesn't get discussed much, but Harris and Klebold had nearly 100 IEDs, two of them being 20lb propane tank bombs that fortunately did not go off.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4830 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:21:12 AM
HumanAction

"Any restriction stating that you may not do something is a restriction of that liberty."

So by your definition laws against murder restrict my liberty of being bale to kill someone?

If so then we restrict thousands of liberties. Every law is a restriction of liberty. So why rail so hard against another law? Put that effort into fighting for liberties that don't occasionally result in 20 dead kindergarteners.

If you outlaw certain guns then criminals will still have them. But you know what? Adam Lanza's mother probably wouldn't have had them. Could he have found them somewhere else? Perhaps. We'll never know. Maybe in the extra time it took to find some he would have come out of whatever manic break he had to have been suffering to do what he did.

Less guns will not END gun violence but there is no arguing that the fewer guns there are the harder it is to find one to use in a crime.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:57:18 AM
@HolyGod

Did you watch the video I posted? Those are automatic weapons.

No they are not. If you've ever had the displeasure of using one of these, you should know that they are wildly inaccurate and cause a ridiculous number of jams. Semi-automatic rifles are not intended to be fired this way.

Meanwhile, an automatic firearm does not jam as frequently (it's seriously about every other time you use the stupid thing - at least with an AR) and is much more accurate.

If these devices were as deadly as you suggest, why do we not see more mass murders featuring them?

The 2nd amendment? I certainly don't see that in there.

DC v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago also help. As for a liberty, if you can do something, then it is a liberty. Any restriction stating that you may not do something is a restriction of that liberty.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4830 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:50:00 AM
HumanAction

"(although this is not an automatic weapon)"

Did you watch the video I posted? Those are automatic weapons. I don't care what they are technically defined as. I care how they operate.

"means that criminals won't use them."

Criminals? Career criminals will always be able to get illegal arms. Career criminals don't scare me. They don't pose any threat to me. Bank robbers, drug dealers, smugglers don't walk into malls and schools. They tend to only use weapons on other criminals. I'm more worried about suburban kids f.ucked up in the head. THOSE are the people that actually pose a threat to me and my family. THOSE people use legal guns in their shootings.

"a liberty of many people"

Why do you think weapons like that are a right and a liberty? The 2nd amendment? I certainly don't see that in there.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:30:17 AM
If someone walks into a public place that is NOT a "gun free zone" with a rig like this and kills 20 or 30 people, several of which are carrying concealed weapons would that end the gun debate on your side?

No - it doesn't address the issue. The issue is twofold.

First, is it "right" to sacrifice a liberty of many people to try and prevent something that may or may not happen? I do not believe so.

Second, does the federal government have the authority to do so? I, from my interpretations, do not believe so.

Ston
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 199 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:28:36 AM
Of course, banning something means that criminals won't use them. You know, because of all those laws criminals follow.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:26:33 AM
So that is how we base legality? What has already been used in a mass murder, and not on trying to prevent it?

If not, then what do we base legality on? I was under the impression it was based on whether or not an action infringes on the rights of another. I don't understand this fascination and focus on "automatic" weapons (although this is not an automatic weapon).

You are willing to sacrifice such a simple, insignificant liberty as this because you are afraid - if not for yourself, than at least for your fellow citizen.

I am not willing to sacrifice any liberties to the government because I am afraid for myself, and my fellow citizen. I am afraid that we look to the government to solve our problems; historical precendence shows that governments should be feared and distrusted multiples more than our fellow citizens.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4830 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:13:53 AM
HumanAction

"When was the last time one was used in one of these mass murders? I think the answer is never."

So that is how we base legality? What has already been used in a mass murder, and not on trying to prevent it?

Let me ask you and the rest of the gun guys this:

If someone walks into a public place that is NOT a "gun free zone" with a rig like this and kills 20 or 30 people, several of which are carrying concealed weapons would that end the gun debate on your side?

Just curious.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 8:03:51 AM
A semi automatic rifle with a bump stock that turns it into a fully automatic and 100 round magazine drums are legal.

When was the last time one was used in one of these mass murders? I think the answer is never.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33895 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 6:14:27 AM

I think anyone who does not want to own a gun, shouldn't.

SilverThread
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3365 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 11:56:44 PM
Carmium has a very lucid understanding of our predicament.

securitywyrm
Male, 18-29, Western US
 89 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 10:57:29 PM
If Americans didn't have so many guns, they'd be British.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10210 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 10:33:05 PM
Does anyone really think that is a good idea?


What makes it a BAD idea?

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 8:29:39 PM
@Klaxor
What I am against is known criminals, who facilitate further crime, who actively preach ethnic cleansing and mass murder being deified as martyrs.


If you are referring to Randy Weaver, He was accused of selling two sawed off shotguns, that were shorter than legally permitted, to an Undercover agent. Randy maintains that they were of legal length when he sold them, and were shortened after he sold them. This charge against him was used to try to get him to be an informant against the Ayran Nations, which he refused to do.
He did not "facilitate further crime"

He has also maintained that he is a white separatist, not a white supremacist, and is not a member of any group. (views which I do not personally agree with, but are nonetheless by themselves not illegal)

So stop making crap up, or cite your sources.

carmium
Female, 50-59, Canada
 6290 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 8:22:19 PM
I take this guy's points; the proposed bans really seem to be politically motivated nonsense. Face it, America, there are just too many guns made, sold, and owned in your country for any attempts at registration or limitation to have a real effect on stopping mass shootings and common gun crimes. I have to admit that if I lived in any of a great many places in the US, I'd probably consider owning a handgun. And I've never owned any sort of gun. I don't have an answer for you; I think you guys are in a jam.

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 8:07:58 PM
Why do the "emotional appeal" people never mention the Cologne school massacre?

In case you didn't know:

The Cologne school massacre occurred in a Catholic elementary school located at Volkhovener Weg 209 in the suburb of Volkhoven in Cologne, Germany on June 11, 1964. Walter Seifert, born on June 11, 1922, killed eight students and two teachers.....

On June 11, the day of his 42nd birthday, Seifert took a self-made flamethrower, lance and mace and entered the schoolyard. After blocking off the main gate with a wooden wedge, he proceeded to kill eight students and two teachers and injure twenty two others, mostly students. He smashed in the windows of the buildings and pointed his flamethrower in the classrooms, setting the classroom on fire, killing nine people. He was then confronted by a teacher, Ursula Kuhr, 24, whom he stabbed with the lance.

-- Wikipedia

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 7:46:40 PM
@Klaxor
"MrPeabody, you fail to mention that this "citizen" Randy Weaver was a known friend of the Aryan nation, selling illegal guns and that a US Marshall also died."

No I did not forget to mention these things, because they are discussed in the story. Read pages 6 and 7 where these issues are discussed. Nonetheless, Nothing you have mentioned warranted what happened to Randy Weaver and his family, or made the government's actions legal. You can skip to page ~20-21 for the outcomes of the lawsuits, legal opinion etc.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 7:28:32 PM
"So you're fine with people who YOU disagree with being killed. Gotcha! No further explaination needed. "
- I'm not for anyone being killed. What I am against is known criminals, who facilitate further crime, who actively preach ethnic cleansing and mass murder being deified as martyrs.

Is that really the road that you want to go down?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24198 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 7:12:39 PM
I know! Let's make "murder" a crime! THAT will stop it from happening!

@klaxor: So you're fine with people who YOU disagree with being killed. Gotcha! No further explaination needed.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24198 Posts
Monday, December 31, 2012 7:07:57 PM
Hey @markust: 1,000,000 abortions in the USA every year! Go look at their pictures. Oh wait, you can't!
Spare me your "emotional appeal" which would do absolutely nothing to help anyone EXCEPT politicians....

Canada had "long rifle registration" for over a decade:
#1 It cost MANY billions
#2 It solved or prevented ZERO point ZERO crimes
#3 It made law abiding citizens criminals because of "typographical errors". Yes, thousands were arrested, tried in court, over a typo.
#4 Did I mention the part about it not preventing a single crime? Billions upon billions spent in Canada = 10X that for the USA.

#5 Pistols? Already registered in Canada since 1936... still used in crimes of course.

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