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Assault Rifle Vs. Sporting Rifle

Hits: 7817 | Rating: (2.2) | Category: Technology | Added by: Crabes
Page: 13 4 5 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:57:07 PM
Listen bub, my dear liberal parents are incredibly skeptical about gun control measures like I am. There are also parents who feel it is their duty to teach their kids how to handle weapons.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:54:36 PM
Once again you OBVIOUSLY aren't a parent


Appeal to authority, I don't need a baseball bat but I'm not going to go bash my neighbors brains in.

You find a dead drug dealer and a dead 5 year old to be equal tragedies?


Both are an opportunity cost.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4971 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:48:04 PM
Cajun247

"I'm saying it's an acceptable risk for such liberty."

Once again you OBVIOUSLY aren't a parent. A room full of dead kindergarteners is absolutely NOT an acceptable risk in exchange for a liberty nobody needs. Nobody NEEDS to be able to order guns on the internet or at gun shows without background checks. Nobody NEEDS stockpiles of weapons with ridiculous attachments like bump stocks and 100 round barrels.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4971 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:45:12 PM
Cajun247

"I'm just as concerned about both quite frankly."

You find a dead drug dealer and a dead 5 year old to be equal tragedies? You obviously aren't a parent then.

"Look who's talkin gun law advocate."

Fewer guns, means less opportunity to get a gun. That is common sense.

"There is no benefit if you only reduce the amount of notorious incidents and not the overall level of violence."

I totally disagree. When I watch the Sopranos I don't feel bad when one mafia guy kills another mafia guy. However when an innocent person gets killed it is sad. You REALLY don't draw any distinction between criminals and civilians?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:44:06 PM
The problem is that there is currently no basis for knowing who is responsible and law abiding,


Most people (say 99.99+%) aren't vicious psychopaths who want to gun down a crowd at the first opportunity they get.

Are you telling me that you are 100% sure that if internet gun sales were made illegal and people were only allowed to have a single handgun instead of a stockpile that maybe aurora and newtown wouldn't have happened?


I'm saying it's an acceptable risk for such liberty.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 3:33:59 PM
You aren't?


Looks like we've found where we split hairs, I'm just as concerned about both quite frankly.

You speak in such absolute certainty.


Look who's talkin gun law advocate.

If you are SO sure that tighter gun laws don't prevent mass shootings then how do you explain a lack of this kind of thing in countries with tighter gun laws?


There is no benefit if you only reduce the amount of notorious incidents and not the overall level of violence. Britain has strict gun control laws compared to the rest of Europe and suffers among the most amount of violence and crime. Same story with Mexico, strict gun laws and high crime.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4971 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 2:45:55 PM
Cajun247

"it won't decrease the level of violence."

You speak in such absolute certainty.

Are you telling me that you are 100% sure that if internet gun sales were made illegal and people were only allowed to have a single handgun instead of a stockpile that maybe aurora and newtown wouldn't have happened?

If you are SO sure that tighter gun laws don't prevent mass shootings then how do you explain a lack of this kind of thing in countries with tighter gun laws?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4971 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 2:40:16 PM
Cajun247

"So we should be more worried about school and mass shootings rather than the overall level of violence in our country? How myopic "

Are you asking me if I am more worried about someone shooting a room full of kindergarteners then I am about an armed drug dealer killing another armed drug dealer?

Ummmm. F.uck yes. You aren't?

You become a criminal you accept the risk. That is a choice. I am far less concerned about criminals shooting other criminals than I am about innocent people getting massacred.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 2:30:47 PM
"As for the Nazis, gun control measures barring Jews from ownership of weapons were put in place in 1938. This is followed by the Holocaust started in 1939."

- HItler relied on his self-serving society to actually restrict their access to weapons. Gun control doesn't advocate restriction for a specific group, but in general for ALL citizens. Like I said, Hitler loosened gun restrictions. Also, the Jews did not know about the eventuality of the Holocaust. They would not have put up an armed resistance, any more than the Japanese-Americans who were interned later on in the US.

Like I said, "The Hitler Argument" is for those who have nothing left to argue, and choose to ignore the real lessons of history.

Also, I am not for restricting responsible law-abiding citizens from anything, or from banning weapons. The problem is that there is currently no basis for knowing who is responsible and law abiding, which leads to easy access for crimin

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 2:17:35 PM
Guns like the ones I posted video of serve NO GREATER GOOD. Certainly not one that outweighs the harm they pose.


The law does not serve any greater good either as it will simply mean more weapons will be owned illegally, and it won't decrease the level of violence.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:51:41 PM
thereby make access of those guns to criminals with nothing to lose more difficult.


So it still doesn't reduce the overall level of violence and now bars otherwise law-abiding citizens owning guns, job well done.

As for the Nazis, gun control measures barring Jews from ownership of weapons were put in place in 1938. This is followed by the Holocaust started in 1939.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:36:46 PM
"Well now we know how well that worked out."

- HItler didn't gain power through the military, but through a willing populace that only thought about themselves and was willing to ignore the effect of their actions on others, on a personal and global scale. Sound familiar?

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:34:28 PM
"Too many of them are criminals simply because they own guns Mexico City forbids them to own."

- Yes, but where do they get those guns? From us. Gun restrictions/laws make the gun dealers think twice, and make them easier to apprehend, and thereby make access of those guns to criminals with nothing to lose more difficult.

As for minimum sentence drug laws, it's obvious the reward outweighs the risk for these individuals. The ready supply and price of drugs also plays a huge role.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:33:05 PM
imposed certain gun control laws to ensure that paramilitaries like the Nazi's wouldn't gain them


Well now we know how well that worked out.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:19:53 PM
MrPeabody - you are once again misconstruing the facts. I did read the 22 pages. That's how I was able to find my evidence in your source.

Randy Weaver was to be arrested, but he didn't believe in the govt., acting on societies behalf, to arrest him for committing a crime that was detrimental to said society, and would facilitate more crime. I don't believe that the govt did everything correctly, but like I said, the issue goes both ways, and you are trying to dismiss Weavers own actions which led up to the incident.

Also, bringing up the Nazi's is a faulty sensationalist argument form someone who doesn't know history. The Nazi's didn't enact gun control laws until well into the war. The Weimar Republic imposed certain gun control laws to ensure that paramilitaries like the Nazi's wouldn't gain them. Hitler actually imposed looser gun laws.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:19:14 PM
How many school and mall shootings does Mexico have?


So we should be more worried about school and mass shootings rather than the overall level of violence in our country? How myopic

Rich middle aged women with mentally unbalanced kids.


What about rich middle aged women who don't have mentally unbalanced kids? You seriously want to disarm them as well?

Criminals in mexico have guns


Too many of them are criminals simply because they own guns Mexico City forbids them to own.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4971 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 1:07:01 PM
Cajun247

"Gun rights are heavily restricted in Mexico and yet many Mexicans own their firearms illegally. So no the law does not guarantee results like you think it does."

Criminals in mexico have guns. While there are innocent bystanders, the majority of gun violence is criminals shooting criminals.

You know who doesn't have guns? Rich middle aged women with mentally unbalanced kids.

How many school and mall shootings does Mexico have?

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:35:17 PM
@Klaxor
He is a citizen no matter what his beliefs or even criminal actions. I do not agree with his views or actions, but the discussion started with Government abuse of power, the loss of citizen's lives, and the targeting of citizens based on their views and gun ownership as happened in Nazi Germany.

Randy weaver is a case where citizens wrongly lost their lives because of Government abuse of power. Randy Weaver could have been arrested for his criminal actions, but was targeted by the Government instead.

And I'm sorry that you believe that anyone's rights and citizenship should be infringed upon because you can not read 20 pages. But if you can't focus long enough to read the 20 pages, then maybe you should not argue the issue.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10228 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:33:43 PM
Laws increase the risk (jail time, fines) and when those risks outweigh the rewards of a crime, people will stop to think twice about committing said crimes.


We got mandatory minimums for drug users in this country, and there still has been no substantial long term reduction drug use. So at a certain point the expense of the law outweighs the benefits to the taxpayer.

Gun rights are heavily restricted in Mexico and yet many Mexicans own their firearms illegally. So no the law does not guarantee results like you think it does.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:24:04 PM
"I am not willing to sacrifice any liberties to the government because I am afraid for myself, and my fellow citizen."

- We have already sacrificed many personal liberties by being part of a society, and have done-so for a reason.

Also, for those who say that laws don't stop crime...they do. Laws increase the risk (jail time, fines) and when those risks outweigh the rewards of a crime, people will stop to think twice about committing said crimes. It may not be so effective for "crimes of passion", or "in-the-moment" crimes, but gun trafficking def isn't a "crime of passion"





MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:13:28 PM
I think to a certain degree these crazies are playing out fantasies whether it is the matrix or video games. I AM NOT SAYING THOSE THING CAUSE SHOOTINGS. I HATE that excuse. However, I do think they want to play out that fantasy.


Bath Massacre -- 1927
Cologne school massacre -- 1964

Please explain what Matrix, video game fantasies where responsible for these two mass killings?

I don't think other methods would be as attractive.

They would be if guns were not available, and with time these attacks would be much deadlier.
If Harris and Klebold had focused on IEDs, the casualties could have been somewhere near 40-50 times higher. (15 dead vs 488+ dead)

Might I also remind you of the sarin gas attacks in gun free Tokyo which killed 13 and injured over a 1000 more people?

Any way you argue it, more gun laws are not going to stop crazy people who are determined to commit mass murder.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:12:22 PM
Also, the stated purpose of the weapons were that they were to be sold to urban black youth gangs so that they may commit crime and kill other black youths. Randy Weaver sold weapons knowing full well that they were to be used for criminal actions, than in itself is a criminal act.( your source)

Like I said, I am not for just killing other people, regardless. I have been around neo-nazi's before, and if they leave me alone and I leave them alone, fine,

but if you are going to canonize a criminal white separatist supremacist, then you have to be ready to do so for EVERY urban black, hispanic and asian youth who has killed a cop, and killed by a cop, b/c they have been worse victims of a system that has been against them since its inception.

Since you bring up the Randy Weaver case in a conversation about gun control, then I'm guessing that isn't your intention.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4971 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:06:55 PM
HumanAction

"However, simply owning a firearm or bump stock does not infringe in the rights of others... It should not be illegal to possess it."

By that rationale I should be able to own a dirty bomb. Or a canister of nerve gas. Or a missile array in my back yard.

So that means those things should all be legal for a private citizen to own in your opinion?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:05:28 PM
In reality, here is what the argument comes down to:

All of the pro-gun control advocates are trying to protect society from the individual. On the other hand, the anti-gun control advocates are trying to protect the individual from society.

I cannot think of a more fundamental reason for these opinions. Perhaps one of you has a better explanation?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:02:25 PM
Less guns will not END gun violence but there is no arguing that the fewer guns there are the harder it is to find one to use in a crime.

This logic is purposefully misleading. Imagine if we banned baseball bats. Do you suppose that baseball bat-related crime would drop? Of course it would.

Therefore, it stands to reason that removing firearms from society would result in less misuse of those firearms. This logic does nothing to defeat the arguments at hand:

First, it is argued and statistically supported that an increased saturation of firearms in the United States results in a drop of total violent crime; there are several cases that reinforce this.

Second, is it morally justified to restrict the rights of hundreds of millions of people in an attempt to curb gun violence? About 20k are killed each year will guns (I've removed suicides) of roughly 300m citizens.

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