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Assault Rifle Vs. Sporting Rifle

Hits: 7822 | Rating: (2.2) | Category: Technology | Added by: Crabes
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4769 Posts
Thursday, January 03, 2013 6:19:37 AM
Runemang-"A handgun for home protection, a rifle for hunting = 2nd amendment is honored."

And where exactly in the 2nd Amendment did you find that limitation?

Runemang-"don't have rights to jack poo regardless of what the NRA says."

I don't base my rights on what the NRA says. It's what the Bill of Rights says that's important. I suggest you read it, and even more important, comprehend it.

Runemang
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 2669 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:11:43 PM
A handgun for home protection, a rifle for hunting = 2nd amendment is honored. Everything beyond that ... you don't have rights to jack poo regardless of what the NRA says.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11644 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 9:17:29 PM
Does full auto really make a difference in the context of a multiple killer? 30 bullets in 5s or 30 bullets in 20s...what difference does it make when slaughtering civilians in a group? Full auto might even save lives in that context, because the killer is more likely to miss and will run out of bullets faster and thus will only be able to kill people in a smaller area.

I'm not seeing why the distinction between semi-auto and full auto matters in this context. Am I missing something?

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 11:14:31 AM
"Perhaps but, more gun laws will not guarantee any more significant obstacles."
- ATF believes that only about 1% of gun dealers supply 50% of illegal guns. But, they can't track them down b/c one the one hand, they can only use their 2,000 agents to keep track of close to 80,000 dealers, and gun sellers need to keep no form of paper trail about their guns. The ATF is only allowed one unannounced inspection per year. Also, the rest of the illegal guns come from purchases where a friend buys a gun and gives it to a criminal.

Why wouldn't the need for a license and some sort of registration, and renewed gun laws put a serious stop to this?

Also, the cartels have way more guns than the 2000 sent over by Obama. WAY more.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 11:03:22 AM
mrpeabody- if you want to make an argument about responsibility, then you also have to take into account Weaver's own responsibility. He did not want to held accountable for the rules of society, yet willing to facilitate harm in that society.

Like I said, if you want to turn this man into a martyr, then you are going to have to do the same thing with every black, hispanic, asian individual who has shot an officer/ been shot by an officer. Tell my why this wouldn't be true.

Also, the situation did come down to a "FBI sniper", not the entire FBI in a gun fight. One individual who had heard that a US Marshall had just died, and shot twice to kill the main individual he deemed responsible, he missed and hit a woman standing behind a door. The FBI allowed the 1st shot, but not the 2nd.

You misrepresent the facts b/c they sound better, and you know that others wouldn't agree with you otherwise.

MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1795 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 8:29:46 AM
@Klaxor
You said it:
...when presented with over 20 pages of reading, most people won't read past page 2 and then skip to the end.


I did read the 22 pages.


and you are trying to dismiss Weavers own actions which led up to the incident.

No, I have never said Randy Weaver was innocent or justified in his actions. It is you who wants to dismiss the Govt. abuse of power just because Randy Weaver had unpopular views and committed a crime. (Again I do not agree with RW's views or actions, but I have to say this so you don't run off on a tangent again.)

I don't believe that the govt did everything correctly

So having a FBI sniper shoot a woman in the head while holding an infant, and shooting a 14 year old boy in the back is not "doing everything correctly"?

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4769 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:38:47 AM
klaxor-"Yes, but where do they [mexicans] get those guns?"

From the Obama Administration.

goaliejerry-"TAKE IT TO THE POLLS"

The gun-control crowd will never go for that, as they know they would lose.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12607 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:28:40 AM
I know the difference. They should both be banned.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:04:24 AM
In reality, there are very little stopping an individual from buying a gun and killing someone.


Perhaps but, more gun laws will not guarantee any more significant obstacles.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:43:23 PM
"But I can trust my neighbor to not hurt other people because they almost certainly understand that there are penalties associated with such acts. "

- I don't know about where you live, but in a major city, almost everyone can be considered your neighbor. When I was younger, I had to pass by a juvenile detention center every day on the way to school. Not all kids in juvy are sociopaths, but the fact that they were in Juvy does say something about the decisions that they are willing to make.

The problem isn't in the risk involved owning the gun, but in selling that gun to a criminal, which is practically non-existent, and practically untraceable.

Also, laws are enacted to protect the basic human rights of the individual from being imposed upon(life liberty pursuit of happiness). In reality, there are very little stopping an individual from buying a gun and killing someone.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:17:51 PM
And believing that 99.99% of people are reasonable adults is like saying that over 60% of the people in jail should go free


But I can trust my neighbor to not hurt other people because they almost certainly understand that there are penalties associated with such acts.

No, but most gun crimes don't involve crowds, but single individuals, and one life taken is bad enough


Put it this way, there are risks that comes from owning a gun and those that come from not owning one. All of which must be up to the individual to assess.

Also, just because part of society is just, doesn't mean that we can do without laws.


Likewise just because some have good intentions does not mean they'll draft effective and just laws.

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 10:10:57 PM
@HumanAction, I'm not sure which statement you are talking about.

Personally, I don't want to make guns illegal. There are people out there that use guns as tools, or need guns for protection (not from the zombie apocalypse or Red Dawn invasion, but actual dangers). I can even understand hunting for fun. I don't think that most of those people would be against registration and licensing laws, which wouldn't infringe upon their rights to own a gun.

The main problem is the section of gun owners who like to use the issue of guns as toys and for political grandstanding

klaxor
Male, 18-29, Western US
 647 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 9:44:45 PM
"Most people (say 99.99+%) aren't vicious psychopaths who want to gun down a crowd at the first opportunity they get."

- No, but most gun crimes don't involve crowds, but single individuals, and one life taken is bad enough. And believing that 99.99% of people are reasonable adults is like saying that over 60% of the people in jail should go free. Also, just because part of society is just, doesn't mean that we can do without laws.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 7:30:34 PM
@klaxor

Also, for those who say that laws don't stop crime...they do.

I am not sure if you are using this as evidence for my statement or against it. Laws certainly reduce crime.

As I have stated, I believe that laws restricting people from infringing on the rights of others are just.

Regarding gun control laws, advocatess wish to "injure" individuals (by removing the liberty to own guns and/or accessories) for the "benefit" of society as a whole. Gun control law opponents wish to "benefit" the individual (by preserving that liberty).

One side believes that it is acceptable to limit the liberties of individuals (liberties that do not infringe on the rights of others) because doing so may hypothetically benefit society. The other side believes that an individuals liberties should be protected from society.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 7:23:08 PM
Wow... gone for half a day and look at what I miss...

@HolyGod

So that means those things should all be legal for a private citizen to own in your opinion?

From a philosophical standpoint, my answer is yes. Since the simple ownership of a device does not infringe upon the rights of fellow citizens, then I should not regulate or restrict such matters.

Of course, we fall back onto the argument of economics and practicality. Any such discussion on rampant misuse of missle batteries or dirty bombs is rather meaningless.

chance13
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 221 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 6:35:42 PM
Did outlawing marijuana stem the tide? Did prohibition stop liquor?...and still you think that gun-control will change anything?

80% of gun crimes are performed with a firearm that is obtained and owned illegally (read the government report at gunfacts.info)...80%...yeah, what the hell it worked so well with the war on drugs...

goaliejerry
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 4028 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 6:17:13 PM
"I think restrictions on how many guns someone can own is reasonable."

I'll form a corporation to own my weaponry, form it as a security company. I'll be the sole stockholder and president. We'll also have no employees. The corporate address will be my house.

Do you see why that wouldn't work?

goaliejerry
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 4028 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 6:13:04 PM
TAKE IT TO THE POLLS GENTLEMEN AND LADIES, TAKE IT TO THE POLLS.

goaliejerry
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 4028 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 6:12:24 PM
"der der der der der"

Rebuttal - "der der der der der"

Counter-rebuttal - "but der der der"

Counter-refrain rebuttal - "oh but der"

Closing - "lets a-der to disa-der"

Closing rebuttal - "no, der."

ForSquirel
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1721 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 5:01:05 PM
"I support thorough background checks, including screening for mental health for the gun owner and every person living in the household."

Every person living in the household? This is ridiculous. Should we also include the extended family and anyone else who may visit the household, not excluding any potential person who may break into a home? Measures like these would essentially just deter someone from owning a gun. The same way that conceal carry permits take forever and a day to process, hopefully preventing someone from obtaining that.

"I also think someone should have to provide proof of a gun lock or safe to own a gun."

You can't buy a gun these days that does't come with a gun lock.


ForSquirel
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 1721 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:44:43 PM
"However I think bump stocks, large capacity magazines, and semi-auto weapons that are manufactured specifically to be tampered with and turned into automatic weapons should stop being manufactured and bought back."

Just about any gun can be tampered with to go full auto so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I agree on the bump stock for sure and any magazine over 30. Serves no purpose really as the gun gets to heavy.

"I think restrictions on how many guns someone can own is reasonable."

A person can only shoot 1 gun at any given time. If a person owns 1000 or 1 this doesn't change.


Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:21:01 PM
I don't see how any of those rules infringe on anybody's 2nd amendment rights.


I proposed that gun owners should maintain full control of their weapons at all times. If they keep any weapons in a safe they are not to share the key/code to that safe with anyone else. Barring that they are to keep the weapon on their person at all times. If someone else has your weapon either they stole it you're supervising. If you sell a weapon you must also agree to relinquish full rights and responsibilities of that weapon to the person selling it to.

Adam Lanza had unfettered access to her mother's weapons, which was the mistake.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5097 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:10:22 PM
Cajun247

Someone can own a machine gun or any other weapon as long as it is kept on property at a licensed range or gun club with sufficient security. That way they can shoot it, practice with it, and have access to it if a militia ever needs to take up arms.

I don't see how any of those rules infringe on anybody's 2nd amendment rights.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5097 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:08:28 PM
Cajun247

"Listen bub, my dear liberal parents are incredibly skeptical about gun control measures like I am. There are also parents who feel it is their duty to teach their kids how to handle weapons."

I own a gun. I in no way think guns should be illegal. Everyone has a right to defend themselves and their home. I also understand the tradition of hunting in this country so I am ok with hunting rifles and shotguns.

However I think bump stocks, large capacity magazines, and semi-auto weapons that are manufactured specifically to be tampered with and turned into automatic weapons should stop being manufactured and bought back.

I think restrictions on how many guns someone can own is reasonable.

I support thorough background checks, including screening for mental health for the gun owner and every person living in the household.

I also think someone should have to provide proof of a gun lock or safe to own a gun.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:03:24 PM
A room full of dead kindergarteners is absolutely NOT an acceptable risk in exchange for a liberty nobody needs


All of which could've been killed by semi-automatic weapons as that recent tragedy demonstrated.

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