 Shelworth
Male, 50-59, Western US
 211 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 8:07:16 PM
LOL what a load of crap. I call shinnanigans |
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 godthaab
Male, 18-29, Canada
214 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 8:03:01 PM
THE NRA SHOULD SEE THIS!! GOOD GUYS WITH GUNS... YEA RIGHT! |
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axeman929
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
157 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 7:31:58 PM
Should have had one group doing the training and another group doing the assault with neither knowing the set up. That would be real life. |
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axeman929
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
157 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 7:27:03 PM
It was rigged. The guy in the gun was always in the same place. When I am choosing a seat I would never sit front and center. The shooter knew exactly who and where to shoot. Plus they only gave them a few minutes with their rigging. Not to mention in the school shootings shots would already have likely been fired. True enough if I were on the wings I could have tackled the guy while who drew down on the student. |
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 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 6:13:33 PM
This IS what it's like: The average shootout takes 8 seconds.
This isn't about how long, it's about how well trained. Most states are shall-issue, meaning people have to go through checks, which can include training, meeting such criteria you WILL get licensed. As the pro-gun side has pointed out there are very real situations where guns have stopped and prevented crimes. |
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 markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 5:12:31 PM
@McGovern1981, "That gaurd bought people time and most definatly saved lives. He also helped response time by working with SWAT giving them info on what was happening. Not really making a good case against armed police in schools. Want another look up the Pearl High School shooting. Never heard of it? That's cause an armed teacher stopped it and the media couldn't continually shove it down your throat."
You are so frustrating with your strawman arguments. I was not making a case against having cops at schools. If a school district can afford security I am all for it. What I was clearly responding to was OldOllies constant lie that all school shootings have taken place in gun free zones. @FoolsPrussia clearly understood what I was saying. If it makes the most sense to arm our teachers why does OldOllie have to lie to prove his point? |
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 CodeJockey
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
2403 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 4:32:23 PM
this entire experiment is setting up the student to fail and is absolutely no proof
They aren't setup to fail. If anything, they were very generous.
This IS what it's like: The average shootout takes 8 seconds.
They were generous because they gave the test cover. In reality, cover does not stop slugs, it's only good if the active shooter does not yet have you in focus.
Say you fire a slug in your house at an actual bad guy. You miss and:
-it goes through the wall
-into the street
-into the neighbors' home or car.
You are still liable.
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 Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
480 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 4:20:05 PM
@cityncolour, he turns towards the one person holding a gun which is visible. I think the test is a nonsense but if you only one person in a row is pointing a gun at you then which one would you shoot. I agree he was in a prominent position and there are any number of possible outcomes in real life but training helps you look for threats and the shooter was more trained than anyone else in the scenario. I'm not saying this is what would happen om real life every time but that there is a greater chance of a person holding a gun being the one shot. I am not trying to present that as an anti gun argument just an observation. |
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 WeePee
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
606 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 3:44:26 PM
this entire experiment is setting up the student to fail and is absolutely no proof that concealed carry would not help save lives. but who would have ever thought that the news would be biased? |
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 MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
1440 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 3:41:05 PM
I'm also curious why all the anti-gun people have not told me what the woman in this video would have done without her gun? What do people in countries where guns are banned do when someone wants to enter their home and do them harm?
this video |
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MrPeabody
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
1440 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 3:37:00 PM
As I mentioned the last time this was posted, the students who were given the guns knew they did not have live ammo in them, and the instructor who came in shooting was also using fake ammo. So to the student this would have appeared as some sort of demonstration, and would not react the same as in a real life situation. |
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 SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
2738 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 1:48:49 PM
@McGovern1981. Hey brother, once I retire, it's a very real possibility. Or Canada. So, thanks, mate! I just might do it!  |
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 PirateWillis
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
125 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 1:43:57 PM
I get the feeling that this "study" was pretty loaded. To get any sort of definitive evidence you would have to have a better sample than 3 and also make the placement in the class random, but what do you expect from national news. This is just trying to fish for viewers by implying a controversial argument against guns. |
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mikelae18
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
80 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 1:27:32 PM
The test would have been better if the attacker didn't know which person had the gun. Also, I don't own a gun, but I do have a concealed carry permit. I took the class so that I could learn more about firearm safety. I found the 45 min class inadequate, and we only spent 10 min actually handling a gun. |
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 Suicism
Male, 18-29, Western US
3534 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 1:20:45 PM
Good point about the holster too - and those shirts were rather long. Perhaps they were trying to imitate the 'worst' case scenario for carrying a concealed weapon, and being put in a situation to use it. I still got a kick out of those kids who stood up and took action though. |
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Suicism
Male, 18-29, Western US
3534 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 1:19:21 PM
Good point cityNcolour - I thought they did an earnest job of training the students, and preparing them for a surprise scenario. I've always been a proponent (or at least, never been an OPPONENT) of right to carry laws for those with the responsibility to use them. I've now been introduced to all of the training that goes into blocking tunnel-vision, overcoming the 'deer in headlights' response that even police officers deal with and practical things like getting your weapon stuck in your goddamn shirt *facepalm.* There is a different physiological reaction when YOU'RE the target, as opposed to firing on one which presents no threat to you. I think they did a good job of presenting that side in this report. However, as to your point of whether or not the gunman (who was in the know) was deliberately picking out the student who was packing - or rather, arguably the one who drew attention to themselves by moving in the manner they did - I can't be sure. |
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cityncolour
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
345 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 12:30:11 PM
an additional note... that holster they were given..? that is not a "concealed carry" holster. it is designed to be worn over clothes not under them and definitely not designed to have the gun withdrawn quickly. |
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cityncolour
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
345 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 12:10:33 PM
@Finker
watch again, the shooter pretty much immediately turns on the student with the gun right after the teacher. i would put money on the fact that if you moved the student to random places that the intruder is unaware of, not to mention make the shooter as inexperienced as the rest of them and you have totally different results. what those results would be..? who is really to know. but i guarantee they wouldn't be so one sided. |
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cityncolour
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
345 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 12:07:07 PM
@lt633c
i completely agree. while this "experiment" gave an interesting perspective on the topic, it is completely flawed. |
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Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
480 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 10:55:46 AM
@lt633c, I agree this test is nonsense but that the lad with the gun was hit most times by the expert with the gun suggests maybe you make sure you take down the one with the gun? Not sure it is strange. |
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 lt633c
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
127 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 9:40:49 AM
A better test would have been to not tell the suspect ( frearms instructor ) that there was an armed student in the classroom......the results may have been completely different....Or better yet, have the armed student walking by out in the hallway, again unknown to the suspect. This test was crap. |
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 jinxjinx34
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
134 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 9:24:36 AM
@Ozmose- "This video is so moronic because they took a bunch of college kids and put them in a situation they weren't prepared for."- That was the point of the video. They actually gave the people MORE education than required to conceal carry and they were STILL useless with their firearms. I think you and the makers of the video are in agreement. We need to reform the system, not prohibit guns or even the right to carry. |
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Lameworld
Male, 18-29, Western US
51 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 9:21:04 AM
to quote another person on here, biased media is biased |
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lt633c
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
127 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 9:20:32 AM
Doesn't anyone else find it strange that they placed the armed student in the same seat for each scenario ? And that the armed student was the focus of the suspects attention and received the most rounds, especially the last test subject.And how many students were able to escape while the suspect's attention was on the armed student? ALL of them ? Add to it that the suspect was the firearms instructor that trained them, and despite the masks, he has an idea what the "armed student" looks like. Throw in that the test was conducted by a left leaning organization, I agree with BBJellyfish. This was propaganda b/s. |
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 McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10208 Posts
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Friday, December 28, 2012 8:45:51 AM
@SmagBoy1
Have fun there! |
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