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Man Who Shot 4 Firefighters Leaves Suicide Note

Hits: 10751 | Rating: (1.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 24 5 6 7 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
jinxjinx34
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 172 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:32:34 PM
@dbss- I have not, nor would I ever suggest a prohibition on private ownership of firearms. As for the stats. Most of what you have read in my posts have been responses to specific points. I do understand that less guns=less gun violence by default. However, I am not yet convinced of the argument that less guns=more crime. I have been unable to find reliable data verifying that claim. This is mostly because of huge variables in the different ways the comparable data is collected. Also, there are studies that make an equally strained argument for the opposite. To your other point, mass shootings are only a tiny fraction of gun violence in the U.S. Your point doesn't carry much weight against the 8583 gun homicides in 2011. This does not include non-fatalities or robberies. In 2008, 303,880 people reported being victimized by a person with a firearm.

jinxjinx34
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 172 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 1:05:45 PM
@HumanAction- I think we can both agree that we need a change. I know this is a hugely multifaceted issue. I got side tracked in my original conversation with statistics. My point with the stats is that they are NOT very useful to either side of the discussion. Mental health, social economics, education,prison system, ect. are huge players in this dilemma and need to be addressed asap. But I still believe that we, as a country, need to reign in some of the guns floating around and make it tougher for people to build arsenals of assault rifles and allow guns to fall into the wrong hands. This cannot be accomplished with the status quo gun laws. I would NEVER suggest a ban! Prohibition does not work. But to posit that making guns MORE readily available at this time is absurd.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5717 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:50:15 PM
@cynicalgamer: If you're going to parrot statistics you should probably understand them better. Britain considers affrays as "violent crime." Why they do this I don't know, but the point is that "violent crime" is not a standard set of crimes in every country.

pompousass7
Male, 40-49, Canada
 261 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:33:43 PM
humanaction...try picking a war with china then

pompousass7
Male, 40-49, Canada
 261 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:30:48 PM
JUST REPLACE THE WATER CANNON WITH A REAL ONE..PROBLEM SOLVED

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:01:34 PM
HumanAction, but why are we more violent?

There are many different theories, most of which I think have at least some merit. For instance, some blame race - which is statistically significant. Some people blame poor mental healthcare, which I think contributes. Many Southern states close to the border have disproportionately high crime rates too.

In my opinion, the biggest causes are the increasing social division and glorification of fame. Consider the latest election or the Trayvon Martin shooting; have you ever seen groups of people so divided? I haven't.

Could it possibly be our gun culture that is contributing to that as well?

That's certainly one theory, though I do not personally agree with it. My issue with this theory is such: imagine if we had a strong crossbow-culture - would we argue that it contributes to violence?

8BitHero
Male, 18-29, Europe
 5426 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:41:14 AM
Does anyone want to have an argument with me on here? Everyone's already been partnered up. Fancy?

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13431 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:37:43 AM



McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13431 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:36:28 AM
MacGuffincat.......

LillianDulci
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2696 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:31:57 AM
MacGuffin, not sure why you're going on this tirade about separating country from its people when you said this: "I'm all for you Americans having all the guns you want. I'd much rather you spent your free time shooting one another than bombing poor countries."

Most Americans who you want to "spend our free time shooting one another" aren't the ones who are "bombing poor countries". That'd be our government, not our people. You're being kind of hypocritical.

LillianDulci
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2696 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:27:51 AM
HumanAction, but why are we more violent? We definitely aren't born that way. Could it possibly be our gun culture that is contributing to that as well? The feeling of needing to "protect" ourselves from the bad guys. Vigilante justice and the like. The NRA promotes these kinds of feelings because they know it leads more people to buying guns and doing crazy stuff. Shooting people who weren't doing anything wrong because they thought they were doing something wrong, that sort of thing. Not doing anything to change our mindset or our laws isn't going to solve anything. Gun control (for example limiting the types of guns allowed and requiring training classes) is one step toward reducing deaths and gun violence, but it's definitely not the only thing that needs to be done.

onoffonoffon
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2136 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:19:10 AM
Actually all this moral outcry proves how safe of a country this is. If this sort of thing happened often there wouldn't be such a response. Conversely, our country invades much smaller countries so often that we quickly stop caring.

Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
 506 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:38:33 AM
@MacGuffin, no need for names. You talk about not going to war but without an army that is a moot point if not misleading. I am not brainwashed and I get the point you are trying to make but as has been pointed out by others you slip between representing yourself and your country without any real rigour - normally, you only clearly make that distinction when you trip yourself up.

MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
 2597 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:21:30 AM
@MacGuffin - what is this Scottish Army that didn't go to war? You are not fully independent yet so you can't act like you are only when it suits.


Who mentioned anything about a "Scottish Army", dickhead? You really are that brainwashed that you *still* don't get the distinction between the Individual and the State, aren't you? Because for you they are one in the same thing. I differentiate between myself and the UK by stating that "I have" never bombed anyone, and you assume that must mean I'm talking about Scotland if I don't mean the UK. Here's a thought that's probably completely alien to your limited, parochial, borg-like way of thinking: I am not my country, nor any part of it. That's why I'm quite happy to criticise the UK, Scotland, Glasgow, or my next door neighbour, if criticism is due.

And - here's the kicker - none of that self-awareness changes any of my preceding criticism of America.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:12:24 AM
@Lillian

I don't understand why people use statistics within the US to prove their side for gun control (either way, for or against it).

At least in my case, it is because I believe violence is a cultural issue in the US. I think that, regardless of firearms, the US tends to be more violent than most other "first world" countries. Because of this, I do not consider the comparison of international homicide rates a fair indicator of the causality between firearm-availability and crime.

LillianDulci
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2696 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:57:59 AM
I don't understand why people use statistics within the US to prove their side for gun control (either way, for or against it). No matter how much gun control is in a certain city, it's irrelevant when you can easily get a gun by going one city over. I do see this situation as more of a keep murderers in jail story rather than a gun control story.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13431 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:45:05 AM
@Finker

But that would require the military being complacent in doing that. Whenever something like that happens it's never so clearcut some would be other would join resistance along with whatever the government handed them. Not a pretty picture but niether is what you said either way nasty stuff.

tedgp
Male, 30-39, Europe
 3283 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:16:29 AM
dandomxnp, wrong. Every country that has decreased the availability of guns, or outlawed them has seen a noticable decline in gun crime.

Also, who is talking about getting rid of guns all together? The ONLY thing that has been discussed by politicians is the outlawing of assault weapons, which needs to happen.

The regular member of public has no reason to need or use any kind of assault weapon at all.

Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
 506 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:10:58 AM
@MacGuffin - what is this Scottish Army that didn't go to war? You are not fully independent yet so you can't act like you are only when it suits.

Finker
Male, 40-49, Europe
 506 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:07:59 AM
@McGovern1981 "Actual evidence says otherwise. Ex: Vietnam, Cuba, Afghanistan"

Yep, I thought of those too but this would be on home territory & if the US government were killing it's own citizens then I think avoiding civillian casualties might be out the window so heavy weapons could be used far more effectively.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:07:49 AM
I know that living in a fascist state you find it very difficult to differentiate between your individual self and your country

In your previous statement, you address "all Americans" rather than America. Therefore, you either need to redact that statement, or your response conflicts with your initial statement.

Either way, as it is currently framed, your statements are hypocritical. If all Americans can be blamed for bombing smaller countries, then certainly all citizens within the UK can also be.

America's cowardly policy of repeatedly picking fights with countries smaller than itself

In terms of military, all countries are "smaller". It would be impossible to pick a fight with a country that was not smaller. Perhaps you simply should have stated that the US should not be picking fights.

P.S. I consider you to be an idiot.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13431 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:43:08 AM


McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13431 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:31:10 AM
@thunderkunt

SO you don't want to be put in the same boat as the UYK while putting all Americans in the same boat ROFL!!! Hello hypocricy!!!


MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
 2597 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:20:08 AM

Oh the ones you bombed too...yada yada


I've never bombed anyone, dear. Perhaps that's the UK you're thinking of? I know that living in a fascist state you find it very difficult to differentiate between your individual self and your country (residents of the GDR had the same difficulty), but really you must get over this little thing that you have whereby anyone criticising America = an automatic psychological trigger for you to criticise where they live as a response. It just makes you look quite stupid.

Sooner or later, I'm sure, you'll realise that I *agree* with most criticism of the UK's foreign policy over the past decade. And that my doing so doesn't diminish my criticism of America's cowardly policy of repeatedly picking fights with countries smaller than itself.

AutieDaddy
Male, 40-49, Western US
 6 Posts
Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:02:04 AM
Try reading the Federalist Papers to get a real understanding of the U. S. Constitution. Yes the second amendment states "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state" that does not mean the framers wanted only state powers to hold firearms. They knew as many here don't, that "
The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." is what keeps the people free. It is not the guns fault that we as a culture have cheapened life and glorified murderers so much that people think the only way they will ever be noticed is through the wholesale slaughter of their fellow man. Blame the guns all you want, but until we create a society that believes life is worth defending and not destroying then people will kill each other with anything they can get their hands on... remember fertilizer and diesel fuel killed lots of people in Oklahoma, 4 air planes and some box cutters made a pretty big impact and a lot of carnage tooâ

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