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Fact-Based Look At Gun Control In Australia [Pic+]

Hits: 10790 | Rating: (2.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: SmagBoy1
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:56:51 PM
McGovern1981

"If we outlawed tobacco we'd have way less cancer but most people don't like the thought of the government putting us in a bubble for our own safety though."

Here is a HUGE distinction between the two. If you choose to smoke tobacco you put YOURSELF at risk. If you choose to own a gun you put OTHERS at risk.

I have no problem with people taking dangerous risks that only affect them. To me that is personal responsibility.

Tobacco never killed a room full of 1st graders.


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 11:17:43 AM
If we outlawed tobacco we'd have way less cancer

To further your point - drugs are illegal, so surely there exists no drug-related crime?

The logic fails. Drug use hasn't even fallen significantly as a percentage of the population since being outlawed. Why would we expect the outlawing of guns to be any different?

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 10:04:41 AM
@HolyGod

Shell casings you can reprime them, put more powder in them and put a new bullet in them. That would negate that idea and everyone would do it.

Yes. But if the gun was illegal period his mom wouldn't have had it either. Then he might not have had access to one.


If we outlawed tobacco we'd have way less cancer but most people don't like the thought of the government putting us in a bubble for our own saftey though.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 8:53:09 AM
McGovern

"As for laws the guiy that did this those guns were under LAW illegal for him to have."

Yes. But if the gun was illegal period his mom wouldn't have had it either. Then he might not have had access to one.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 8:52:00 AM
McGovern1981

"And then there's always Chris Rock's idea of making every bullet cost $5000. Bullets can be reloaded this is why you need people who own guns to be in charge of gun laws."

I don't get what that means. I can only assume you don't get it. What he was saying is that if bullets cost $5,000 there would be no such thing as an innocent bystander. There certainly wouldn't be school massacres like this either. Nobody could afford it. however you could still defend yourself as that would be worth the price.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 7:48:57 AM
And then there's always Chris Rock's idea of making every bullet cost $5000


Bullets can be reloaded this is why you need people who own guns to be in charge of gun laws.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 7:47:39 AM
As for laws the guiy that did this those guns were under LAW illegal for him to have.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 7:44:54 AM
Mandatory gun buy back = From my could dead hands. How about they start buying those guns they sold to the Mexican mafia first?? I'm sure they had nothing but the best intentions when they did that....

SpermNinja81
Male, 30-39, Australia
 458 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 7:22:18 AM
Cont...

NRA/gun lobbys. buying back that many weapons will undoubtedly cost a hell of a lot of money,and be another huge burden on the American economy. As already mentioned by other posters, more funding and better access to Mental health facilities for the disturbed, as well as tightening the licensing requirements might also have SOME impact on the amount of gun crime.It's starting to become apparent that the media might need to rethink the way they report these crimes, also. And then there's always Chris Rock's idea of making every bullet cost $5000 (no more innocent bystanders!). None of these measures will stop gun crime.. but, what's the alternative? do nothing? how many more of these incidents do we have to hear about? No disrespect to those killed intended, but I'm becoming numb to these shootings, and the attitude of anyone defending the weapons that are designed only to take HUMAN life.

SpermNinja81
Male, 30-39, Australia
 458 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 6:59:26 AM
One of the very few things the Howard government did right, in my opinion.

But one key factor in the reduction of firearm violence/suicide in Australia since Port Arthur was the buyback scheme. Outlawing the weapons involved in these crimes isn't going to be enough by far. I believe the article stated 650-odd thousand weapons were sold back to the government, as well as any that have been handed in during the numerous amnesties since 1996. with these weapons destroyed, and no new ones being made or imported, it's inevitable that weapons are going to be harder to find. Are any of these weapons still out there? undoubtedly, but there's a hell of a lot less of them, and serious penalties for anyone caught with them.
This is going to be the biggest hurdle for the US to overcome, given the massive amount of firearms ALREADY legally/responsibly owned as well as Illegal/unregistered weapons on the streets, this and the attitude of gun enthusiasts, and the political power of the

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 6:43:10 AM
I want to ban the kinds of guns and accessories that allow an individual to shoot off hundreds of rounds in a matter of minutes.

So... everything except a musket? Seriously, a decent handgun has an average capacity of 13 (12 + 1) and can be emptied in seconds. Even a skilled shooter with a pump action shotgun will be able to fire 100 rounds in a few minutes.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 5:33:19 AM
OldOllie, you are a perfect example of why America needs to invest more in treating the mentally ill.

richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1953 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 5:07:42 AM
I disagree with this, it claimed that the Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi study was flawed because the structural breaks could just be lagging. "the Leigh and Neill study appears the most reliable of the ones conducted." But if you read the reports, the Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi study used one univariate time series model and four seperate parsimonious multivariate time series models.
As opposed to a the two seperate univariate time series models the Leigh and Neill study uses. The reason this is bad is because make it makes it difficult to rule out any other competing hypotheses for why gun death rates changed.
They state in the Leigh and Neill study that they did this to avoid interference from endogeneity but "including such controls would...reduce the number of state-year combinations... due to missing observations in some cases." But missing observations and omitting variables causes interference from endogeneity!

AKA: Biased stats!

Sistarose
Female, 30-39, Australia
 372 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 3:37:13 AM
All I know is I was not a first in full support of the gun laws when they were pushed through, I felt they were a knee jerk reaction. Now years later, nothing fell apart, crime did not spiral out of control with the only guns in the hands of criminals and life went on.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:18:51 AM
OldOllie

"So, you libs think that if we ban guns, there won't be any more gun violence, right?"

No. Of course not moron. There will just be less of it.

I do not want to ban guns. I want to ban the kinds of guns and accessories that allow an individual to shoot off hundreds of rounds in a matter of minutes. I have yet to hear a legitimate reason why you feel those are necessary. I also want to get rid of gun sales online and gun sales at gun shows. Keep your hand guns and hunting rifles.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14431 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:25:35 PM
What does the "it wouldn't have happened if the school was armed" idiots have to say about the Fort Hood shooting that happened at the most populous U.S. military installation in the world?

markust, I believe that this question has been asked and answered. However, since liberals seem to be incapable of learning, I will repeat the answer here. Members of the armed services in non-combat zones are PROHIBITED from carrying weapons unless specifically assigned to guard duty, which is nearly always at the perimeter of the base, or as military police. It was the MPs, not the regular soldiers, who stopped the Ft. Hood shooting, but not before the gunman killed 13 and wounded 29 unarmed -- correction, DISARMED -- people.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14431 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:15:28 PM
So, you libs think that if we ban guns, there won't be any more gun violence, right? Well, we banned drugs. How's that working? We banned illegal immigration. How's that working?

First, prove you can keep illegal drugs and illegal immigrants out of the US, and THEN maybe I'll believe that you can keep illegal guns out, too. (BTW, drugs can be detected by dogs; guns can't.)

Till then, I'm keeping mine. If you want to try to take it, though, you're welcome to try.

securitywyrm
Male, 18-29, Western US
 89 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 9:04:04 PM
Who would have thought that a dramatic increase in mental health care spending (Source: http://www.aihw.gov.au/) would dramatically reduce violent crime and suicide. Correlation does not equal causation.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:42:56 PM
DuckBoy87

"The question of how easily obtainable an item is is not the dispute; it's that if someone wants it, they will find a way to get it."

So let me see if I understand. You are saying don't make certain guns illegal or restricted because it doesn't matter, if someone wants them they will get them anyway? Well hell, by that rationale why make anything illegal? Might as well sell heroin at walmart, I mean if someone wants to get it they can anyway right?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:41:45 PM
DuckBoy87

"HolyGod, You don't how to/can't find something, ergo, nobody in the whole wide world can!"

Huh? I never said anything remotely like that. I was asking you straight up if you thought you could get crack. Then I told you I probably couldn't. That in no way means I think nobody can get it. Obviously there are lots of people that can. Maybe you can. Maybe your mom is a crack whore and she knows johns that like 20 something males. Who knows? I'm just going with the assumption that most people in this country have no idea how to get crack.


markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:20:39 PM
What does the "it wouldn't have happened if the school was armed" idiots have to say about the Fort Hood shooting that happened at the most populous U.S. military installation in the world?

This issue is not about guns it is about America's failure at recognizing and treating the mentally ill.

DuckBoy87
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2681 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 7:01:12 PM
HolyGod, You don't how to/can't find something, ergo, nobody in the whole wide world can!

Look, the fact is that if there is something out there that somebody wants, they will find a way to get it. It doesn't matter if it's drugs, guns, or porn; they will get it.

And really, it's no duh that you can find directions to a LEGAL establishment. The question of how easily obtainable an item is is not the dispute; it's that if someone wants it, they will find a way to get it.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:04:07 PM
DuckBoy87

"I believe I can still go find someone to buy crack from"

You really think you could? You think it is that easy? I wouldn't have a clue where to go or who to talk to. However I can pull up 30 gun shops on my phone and get turn by turn directions. Comparing the two is asinine.


DuckBoy87
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2681 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:38:19 PM
Oh, so you want to ban (some or all) guns, eh?

How's that working out for the drugs?
I believe I can still go find someone to buy crack from, but that's illegal right?

Criminals and the insane are going to find a way to get the guns, no matter what. Just like, from what I've seen, most IABers are going to find a way to get marijuana.

I saw some stupid stat that said something along the lines of no massacre shooting has ever been stopped by a civilian gun.
Well, of course not! Most massacres happen at "gun-free zones". What law abiding citizen is going to break the law?

scheckydamon
Male, 50-59, Southern US
 410 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:10:16 PM
25 years murder free in Kennesaw, GA. March 82 saw law passed that EVERY head of household had to have a gun. The vermin and loonies have left the town.
Morton Grove ,IL which the Kennesaw law was an answer to, has seen violent crime increase to at or just below the national average but an overall increase from before the ordinance passed banning personal firearms. Also the populations are more even now that 1982.
FBI 2010 Kennesaw stats:
"The city violent crime rate for Kennesaw in 2010 was lower than the national violent crime rate average by 85.16% and the city property crime rate in Kennesaw was lower than the national property crime rate average by 46.46%."

Come see us here in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains and see what gun ownership does for the crime rates.

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