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American Issue: Gun Control & Mental Health [P

Hits: 10041 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Buiadh
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
dm2754
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3122 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 8:38:49 AM
makes no sents

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 7:19:14 AM
@MeGrentroll
Hihi you're funny.

Love the assumptions and your general mudthrowing. Good stuff.
But from a guy with such an age and idealy wisdom... /shivers
I hope you have more stimulating input outside the IAB forum.

Also posing hard options and trying to make people see things from other sides, is by far one of my favorite things to do. So yes for the stimulating debate i do often participate and argue from sides i do not believe in. Wether you do it or not, I cannot say.

Just for the point, I personally dont think that changing the legislation in the US will help much. That and many other issues is something the people of the country will have to work on over a long time. One does not simply MAKE a whole nation/country democratic for instance.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 5:43:52 AM
Essersmith-I love how you pick and chose quotes ..."the majority of society is law abiding" & "illegally stolen or illegally purchased."

It's not a case of 'disregarding the others'. I didn't argue those two quotes for the simple reason is that I agreed with them.

I chose to argue the statements I dissagree with. That's usually how it works. (now, for a stimulating debate I will sometimes argue with points I agree with, just to play devil's advocate, but that's for rational debate, which you've never been involved in.)

Do YOU often go around arguing with people who tell YOU that you're intelligent ?(Granted, in your case that never happens).

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:45:57 AM
@MeGrentroll
I love how you pick and chose quotes and then deal with them individually while disregarding the others. "the majority of society is law abiding" & "illegally stolen or illegally purchased.". Its pointless to explain you what a majority is i guess..

Anyway, nah, you guys in the US are doing great, keep on truckin' and thumps up from europe.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:25:36 PM
elkingo-" Kentucky it is the liberals who are limiting access to mental health services"

And in our neck of the woods the mental health institutions are shutting down because of the costs associated with Obamacare. We've already had problems (murders) by people who, up until recently, were institutionalized.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:25:22 PM
Cruzosaurus-"he may not have ever had the guns in the first place"

Or he may have. Or he may have waited out the waiting period for the rifle he was buying, picked it up and the massacre would have taken place 3 days later.

Cruzosaurus-"I do believe it would save many lives."

Okay, YOU 'believe' that. Others believe otherwise. I believe, strongly, in my area the gun ownership is great deterrence to B&E, muggings and other violent crime. There are many neighborhoods that do not have to worry about B&E, as they have shown that such occurances can be deadly to the criminal.

Cruzosaurus-"When I was under 19 it was a lot harder to get booze"

And when I was 8 I got booze all the time. I picked it up for my handicapped grandfater at the corner store. I could have just as easily gotten it for myself.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3418 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:20:37 AM
"One of those steps preventing access to mental health care are cartoons like this. Suggesting anyone who needs mental health care is a buck-toothed simpleton who is one flashing sign away from a shooting spree is the kind of thing that will turn people away from seeking the help they need."

Amen.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3418 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:19:03 AM
Ha! Good one.. except in Kentucky it is the liberals who are limiting access to mental health services.

Our fearless leader Beshear brought in managed care, which limits the sh|t out of how many services children get.


Modwain
Male, 30-39, Europe
 303 Posts
Sunday, December 16, 2012 1:32:54 AM
agreed Laran

Cruzosaurus
Female, 30-39, Canada
 8 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:38:18 PM
Sorry, got cut off for some reason.

And the majority believe it's still necessary today. There was a reason it was second only to Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion.

All you have to do is pass an Amendment the Constitution of the United State that repeals the 2nd Amendment. Much as the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th.

The chances of you being able to do that is slim to none. Until such time, the 2nd trumps all. - I know the second amendment will never be changed. But, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Laran
Male, 30-39, Australia
 261 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:24:55 PM
When I think about guns, my first thought is about foxes and dingos after the livestock.
I dont even think about people being in the sights.
Most city people dont need a gun at all.
there is a vast difference between a gun designed to be a useful tool and one designed to kill humans.
still, any tool can be misused- I was raised that only an idiot would venture into the bush without a knife for example,and I carry one permanantly on my belt.
It sh*ts me that other people's selfishness and stupidity affects me.
If a gun makes you feel tough- you probably shouldn't have one.
this whole debate is crazy.

Cruzosaurus
Female, 30-39, Canada
 8 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 9:27:53 PM
@MeGendel Yeah, that 'Gun-Free School Zone' law is working really well. - Not my point. My point was if his irresponsible parents didn't legally own guns he may not have ever had the guns in the first place... then the school wouldn't have need to be armed to stop such a horrendous attack.

@MeGendel So you admit that people break laws. - Absolutely. Hence "The majority". I agree making guns illegal does not solve everything. However, I do believe it would save many lives.

@MeGendel Upon what basis do you base the idea of making something illegal will make it harder to get? - Yes. When I was under 19 it was a lot harder to get booze... sure, we were able to get it a lot of the time...but, not always.

@MeGendel And the majority believe it's still necessary today. There was a reason it was second only to Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion.

All you have to do is pass an Amendment the Constitution of the United State that repeals t

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14431 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 9:08:51 PM
@klaxor, GENERAL WELFARE != INDIVIDUAL WELFARE. But thanks for playing our game.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 8:32:05 PM
Cruzosaurus-"the majority of society are law abiding'

Yeah, that 'Gun-Free School Zone' law is working really well.

Cruzosaurus-"illegally stolen or illegally purchased."

So you admit that people break laws.

Cruzosaurus-"If they were harder to get in the first place"

Upon what basis do you base the idea of making something illegal will make it harder to get?

Cruzosaurus-"The second amendment was necessary in 1791"

And the majority believe it's still necessary today. There was a reason it was second only to Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion.

All you have to do is pass an Amendment the Constitution of the United State that repeals the 2nd Amendment. Much as the 21st Amendment repealed the 18th.

The chances of you being able to do that is slim to none. Until such time, the 2nd trumps all.

Cruzosaurus
Female, 30-39, Canada
 8 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:26:07 PM
@MeGrendel No, I don't think it will make it disappear. Hence "perhaps". If they were illegal perhaps they wouldn't have has so many guns available in their home. Maybe they would, but the majority of society are law abiding. Most of the guns used in these crimes are legally purchased... then illegally stolen or illegally purchased. If they were harder to get in the first place they would be harder to get illegally as well.
The second amendment was necessary in 1791... just because something was required at one point for some reason doesn't mean it should never be visited and discussed again. Things change.
In no way do I think making guns illegal would solve everything. They are illegal here but we still have gun violence. Albeit on a much lesser scale. I don't know one person that owns a gun & I don't feel less safe in the least. I actually feel safer.

slut_etta
Female, 50-59, Southern US
 3374 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:53:24 PM
and therein lies the crux of the problem.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 5:39:30 PM
piperfawn-"maybe she just wouldn't have wanted so mich weapons inside her society"

Maybe, but we'll never know. Maybe she wanted everyone to have a puppy. Maybe she wanted free re-constructive surgery for everyone so no one would be ugly (oh, sorry, that's not a pc word. Free surgery for 'those with severe appearance deficites')

But we're dealing with reality. Where making a 'bad thing' illegal does not make it go away. Where making laws has no effect on those who chose to break the law. Where the most common location of a mass murder was a 'gun-free zone'. Strange that the maniac forgot to follow that simple rule.

What YOU 'want' is irrelevent. The REALITY of the situation is that there is nothing magical about guns. Wave your magic wand, and make all guns, ammo and manufactures dissappear today, and tomorrow there will be thousands available again.

piperfawn
Male, 30-39, Europe
 3890 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 5:00:16 PM
maybe she just wouldn't have wanted so mich weapons inside her society so she did'nt have needed protection from some unknown armed civilian.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:56:16 PM
SPrinkZ-"It's currently easier to buy a way to kill a person than it is to buy piracetam.'

Yes, you can buy a knife for $5, and piracetam costs 8 times as much.

Your point?

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:56:03 PM
Cruzosaurus-"If guns were illegal perhaps this guys mom & dad wouldn't have had at least 4 guns in a house"

You actually thing that making something 'illeqal' makes it dissappear.

Been paying much attention to the drug problem we have?

piperfawn-"an armed officer not a civilian"

I pointed that out. Ideally I'd like a few officers at every school, but it's not going to happen. Costs too much.

Costs much less to let the people who are already there, and who have a want to protect the kids, to be armed.

It's been reported that at least ONE teacher lunged for the shooter in an effort to stop him, and paid for it with her life. Are you tellling me she wouldn't have wanted to have a more effective way of protecting those children?

There was not a cop there, nor was there an armed citizen. Just a bunch of helpless victims.

SPrinkZ
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 2254 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:42:24 PM
It's currently easier to buy a way to kill a person than it is to buy piracetam. No one cares though that one can kill, and the other is an innocuous substance used to increase cognition. >.>

piperfawn
Male, 30-39, Europe
 3890 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:27:24 PM
yes MeGrendel...an armed officer not a civilian.

Cruzosaurus
Female, 30-39, Canada
 8 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:26:21 PM
That was an armed officer... not a random citizen who was packing and jumped in.

If guns were illegal perhaps this guys mom & dad wouldn't have had at least 4 guns in a house with a kid with a personality disorder!

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:00:09 PM
piperfawn-"i don't remember lot of cases of law abiding citizen being the saviors of situation like that."

Birmingham Alabama, today, an armed officer shot to death a shooter before he had a chance to kill anyone. Only 3 wounded.

The difference? There was no armed person at the school that would have had a chance of stopping the shooter and minimizing the damage.

Now, many citizens have as much, if not more, training and experience with their handguns, and there are a lot more citizens.

I would have like for EITHER to be present at the school.

dbss-"if guns were illegal then the people with mental disorders wouldn't be able to buy them."

Yup, it worked so well with drugs.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25760 Posts
Saturday, December 15, 2012 3:07:29 PM
@piperfawn, the USA i the 3rd LARGEST country on Earth! Only China and India have more people, the next largest population isn't half of the USA.

So DUH they'll have 'more' crimes! But it's 'per capita' that counts!

Did you know: the more churches a town has, the more crimes it will have? So do churches cause crime?
(large cities have more churches, thus a higher number of crimes, because there's more people - it's a silly example on purpose!)

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