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American Health Care Vs. The World's Prices [Pic]

Hits: 15533 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 35 6 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:00:21 PM
@Listypoos: Actually, no. It's a question that political philosophers with far more brain power than you and I combined have spent centuries debating.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10118 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:57:28 AM
And chances are, you're going to get something as bad as cancer at some point in your lifetime.


Right at SOME point, not everyday. One time, sixty years down the road. Thus putting money in an account I have total control over is more viable than some piece of paper that I'm more bound to wipe my ass with.

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1804 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:54:07 AM
"...or health insurance is so expensive it almost certain to cost you more than any hospital bill you'll ever get."

You've never been in the hospital, have you? The amount you pay in premiums would never cover your expenses if you get cancer. And chances are, you're going to get something as bad as cancer at some point in your lifetime.

Listypoos
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2114 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:49:06 AM

"The point I am making is that, to claim that "health care is a right" you must also claim that (a) slavery is at least sometimes acceptable (that's the only way to ensure enough doctors when efforts to "make it attractive enough to become a doctor" fail)"

You realise how stupid that comment makes you look, right? Is the next straw you clutch at going to be as silly?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10118 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:48:35 AM
people don't have insurance and those people tend to be the ones


...or health insurance is so expensive it almost certain to cost you more than any hospital bill you'll ever get.

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:47:39 AM
Look, I'm trying to explore the claim that "healthcare is a right." This isn't about the current state of healthcare or whether your Uncle Bob could get a heart transplant when he needed it. The question is, what do you mean when you say "healthcare is a right?"

This question is as serious as a heart attack (forgive the pun) because it is the root claim that HolyGod is making for why the state should provide this service.

If you can't defend the claim with anything better than, "It's a right because I want it to be a right and if you don't you're an idiot," then there's no point discussing rights at all. Simply let the government do whatever the hell 50.1% of the people vote for it to do.

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1804 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:44:53 AM
"Which it still fails to do surprisingly enough."

Because a lot of people don't have insurance and those people tend to be the ones who wait to get help until it becomes something expensive to treat.

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1804 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:42:00 AM
"The point I am making is that, to claim that "health care is a right" you must also claim that (a) slavery is at least sometimes acceptable (that's the only way to ensure enough doctors when efforts to "make it attractive enough to become a doctor" fail), and (b) people are not equal under the law (because there will be many instances in which the state must choose whose "right to health care" to defend and whose to violate. "

Wow, hyperbole. The last hope of a desperate debater. I'm waiting for you to say "slippery slope". Why don't you try the argument "If we make healthcare free, there'll be too many healthy people on earth and all the food will run out." Or, "If people get healthcare for free, they won't need to work."

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10118 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:41:00 AM
Excuse me but how many unemployed people are living in your country that would like a job that provides an income and satisfaction?


I would that doesn't mean I want to be a doctor.

Everyone HAS to have insurance so the costs are spread around more fairly.


Which it still fails to do surprisingly enough.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 260 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:39:57 AM
@AntEconomist

But your scenario IS pointless, because there are already sytems in effect that work and where you dont have to chose a or b.

You are suggesting scary scenarios and choices that have little to no validity.

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1804 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:34:01 AM
"The difference is that in those countries you pay for everyone's hospital stay."

So do we. That's probably the main reason we pay so much. Hospitals charge people with insurance extra to make up for having to care for the people without insurance who don't pay anything. That's what gets fixed in the insurance mandate part of the Affordable Care Act. Everyone HAS to have insurance so the costs are spread around more fairly.

BTW- the entire concept of insurance (of any kind) is having a pool of people's money to pay for the few people who actually need it. You have ALWAYS been paying for other people's care. You honestly don't think the premiums you pay get put into a little account and that's just YOUR money to spend on your potential healthcare, do you? If you do, then you are totally clueless.

MrOrange
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2268 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:19:57 AM
@AntEconomist

Excuse me but how many unemployed people are living in your country that would like a job that provides an income and satisfaction? as for x bieng larger then y simply means that some idiot hasn't done his forecast right. basis of every ecomonie is still demand = suply.

and yeah if you go out today you might get run over by a car, if you don't and you stop to buy groceries that store might be robbed and you could be hit by a stray bullet. if i was you i'd stay indoors and if you feel hungy you might consider that it's better to be hungry then risk all the if's and buts out there.

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:07:34 AM
@HolyGod: The "what if" scenarios are not at all pointless. They force you to confront the implications of what you are claiming. Of course, we'll likely never have a situation where we have only two people and only one dosage, but we do *frequently* have situations where we have 100,000 people and 80,000 dosages. We'll never have a situation where there are no doctors, but we frequently have situations in which we need more doctors than we have.

The point I am making is that, to claim that "health care is a right" you must also claim that (a) slavery is at least sometimes acceptable (that's the only way to ensure enough doctors when efforts to "make it attractive enough to become a doctor" fail), and (b) people are not equal under the law (because there will be many instances in which the state must choose whose "right to health care" to defend and whose to violate.

Kcorb
Male, 30-39, Canada
 41 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 11:06:23 AM
@ AntEconomist

I've been in the top Canadian tax bracket for the last 10 years and I have about another 15 years before I retire. I pay for my share as well as many of my fellow Canadians. I'm glad I can provide to people less fortunate in this form.

If you're against universal health care, are you also against your government funding your military or highways or any other institutions? They are all a service that your government supplies at cost or should they be user based as well (like toll highways & bridges). I'm glad my government provides these services and as democracies we get to vote for which level of funding they are provided.

Why wouldn't you want to try it? It's like looking at an ethnic restaurant and walking past it for burgers and fries. You really don't know what you are missing.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 260 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:55:20 AM
@AntEconomist
Thats an excellent hypophysis. Except where is that particular scenario true?

Ill give you a hint, your scenario is not true where I live... and both education and healthcare is "a right"/free here.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:51:29 AM
AntEconomist

"What if we don't have enough doctors or nurses? Should the state force people to become doctors and nurses?"

You mean should we have a draft like they did in the military? No. They should make it attractive enough to be a doctor or nurse so that it isn't ever a problem. It hasn't been. I don't see how it would become one suddenly.

"What if there is only one dosage of a drug for two people who need it."

What if there is a comet about to crash into Earth and destroy it and the only way to avert it is to kill a child, would you? I don't want to play the "what if?" game. It is completely pointless.

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:56:52 AM
@HolyGod: Let's run with your claim that health care is a right. What if we don't have enough doctors or nurses? Should the state force people to become doctors and nurses? What if we don't have enough new medicines? Should the state force scientists to conduct research? Notice that your "right to health care" is conflicting with people's rights to choose their own careers.

It gets better. What if there is only one dosage of a drug for two people who need it. If we both have a right to health care, then the state must choose which of our rights to health care to protect, because by definition, it can't protect both.

sosueme1966
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 389 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:38:30 AM
The difference is that in those countries you pay for everyone's hospital stay.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:34:56 AM
AntEconomist

"Why stop at health care? I propose that the private sector adopt this free model. We should each pay Apple $10,000 a year and then all of our i-Stuff will be free! We can pay GM $50,000 a year and have free cars."

Nobody has a right to an iPod or a Corvette. Some of us believe healthcare is a basic human right. It is OK if you don't, but try saying something intelligent. Comparing needed medical attention to luxury items is asinine.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 260 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:32:58 AM
@AntEconomist

Except the private hospitals wont educate us, pay for police, fire department or the roads..

funnehkitteh
Male, 18-29, Europe
 506 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:32:26 AM
England: free (if you pay taxes)

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4469 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:31:46 AM
robthelurker

Well dips.hit, the idea of paying for health insurance is so you are covered when you need medical attention. The fact that you can pay to be insured and then your insurance doesn't really cover what it is supposed to is ridiculous.

It is kind of like paying for car insurance and then if you get in an accident your insurance company says you weren't covered to be driving on that road.

LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 3710 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 9:22:40 AM
I've been broke and walked three mles in the sleet to get to work because the bus-fare was better spent on food and now I am more or less comfortable. But broke or comfy I have never had to ask myself the question, 'My child is sick, can I afford to get treatment?'

In any advanced affluent society (and if you are spending time on IAB that's where you are) no-one should have to ask that question.

When I was skint and my daughter had a major asthma attack in the middle of the night and I have no car I could pick up the phone and a doctor would be at my door in thirty minutes and there was no bill. I guess I cost the tax-payer a fair bit.

But now I'm earning and paying a lot in tax my family have not troubled the health service in eight or nine years. I'm fine with paying the tax.

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 8:54:23 AM
@Kcorb: "I am also happy to have my government use my tax money to fund it."

If you are happy to hand over your money for health care, then you don't need the government to provide it. Simply hand over your money to a private hospital. What you really mean is that you are happy to have the government hand over other people's money to provide you with health care.

Kcorb
Male, 30-39, Canada
 41 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 8:37:39 AM
There are flaws in almost any medical system. All I can say as a Canadian is that my family has used our system many times and I am very happy with it. I am also happy to have my government use my tax money to fund it . I am so happy with it that I am able to overlook administrative waste, wait times (which are not really all that long), less privacy, and slow government approvals for new treatments amongst many other problems. Some of the arguments used by Americans against universal healthcare are often true, but helping your fellow (wo)man is much more important.

I think most of my friends would classify me as the most right-leaning person they know. But I agree with the lefties on this...

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