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American Health Care Vs. The World's Prices [Pic]

Hits: 15541 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 24 5 6 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:33:08 PM
@Cajun247 I really don't see your point. The entire point of having insurance is to cover costs of things you can't afford on your own when they happen, if they happen. Because you don't know when these catastrophic things will happen, you buy insurance. Believe me, everyone has had your thoughts. "Why do I have to pay for insurance I'll never use." I've had insurance on my car for 13 years and have only had a windshield replaced. Luck of the draw. The only reason insurance CAN pay for things is because some people won't need to use it. But when you finally do use it, you're damn glad you have it. Look at all the people on the east coast who live near the water and decided they didn't want to pay for flood insurance. Bet they wish they had now. And now our tax dollars have to make up for their lack of prudence.

BTW- before you say something, I HAVE lowered the collision side of my car insurance to next to nothing. But I still have to have the part that covers other p

faustsshadow
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 365 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:31:06 PM
Australia is not free. No where is health coverage free. Things cost money and that money comes from somewhere. I don't care which approach you want, just don't confuse 'universal' health care with 'free' health care. Even if someone runs a free clinic, the costs to do so still come from somewhere.

avail9988
Male, 18-29, Australia
 678 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:19:06 PM
Australia = Completely free :)

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:18:30 PM
How often are you going to get run over and have to pay more than you have to be more than a vegetable?

Hopefully never, but I sure dont hope anyone else has that happen.

How often are you going to get burned when drinking hot coffee? Its pretty pointless to look at chances here...

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:17:21 PM
Granted even if it's 7 years worth premiums for average joe (in your case), it IS NOT infeasible to pay that off with a loan. To put things in perspective the new 2013 Hyundai Tucson will cost AT LEAST $20,000.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:13:29 PM
[quote">I pay $185/mo on my health insurance. I'm self-employed so that's the total cost. $2,200 a year. The last time I had outpatient surgery it was over $7,000, so almost 4 years of premiums. Four years of payments for 5 hours of treatment.[/quote">

Well if my employer offered coverage I'd pay around $1021 a year, sounds reasonable except that the average ER visit costs grosses at $1318. Unless you're someone REALLY unfortunate such a cost isn't really justified. Then again this data doesn't discriminate against high-deductible plans. Granted it'll be about 7 years worth of premiums in your case, but again I stress how often is this going to happen?

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:11:00 PM
@AntEconomist

"I never said I didn't. What I said was that I do not want the state *forcing* me to do so."

That is because you cant have equal healthcare for everyone without...everyone.

Im not sure I get it then, the state is not forcing everyone to do so, the people chose through years of democratic (here it is 2/3 of the votes) elections to do so.


lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:58:31 PM
"Yet I'm almost certainly going to spend far more on insurance premiums than actual medical bills, so that's statement moot."

I'd love to know how you know that. Crystal ball? Some people never get sick and that could be true. Some people get into accidents. Some people get leukemia or need a heart transplant. Some people have premi babies. We have zero control over when and how we'll need healthcare. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow or never get sick ever. You could save a 100k for your personal health needs and then lose your job for a year and need to use a big chunk of that money to live on. I don't expect for my house to burn down or get hit by a tornado but I still have home insurance. I pay $185/mo on my health insurance. I'm self-employed so that's the total cost. $2,200 a year. The last time I had outpatient surgery it was over $7,000, so almost 4 years of premiums. Four years of payments for 5 hours of treatment.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:58:14 PM
AntEconomist

"One has the right to pursue an education, but not a right to an education. One has a right to defend one's life and property, but one does not have a right to force someone else to defend his life/property"

So you would do away with all public programs? Public education? Public works? Public roads? National defense? Public police and firefighters?

You want to take away all the progress we have made as a society?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:42:38 PM
AntEconomist

"That leaves me, hopefully you, certainly others to contribute to caring for the sick voluntarily."

You are so full of s.hit. Are you hanging out at ER rooms paying the tabs of people who can't afford it? Come on.

There are people who will die today, in the most prosperous country on Earth, because they can't afford to treat injuries or illnesses. You, or I, or others aren't going to help them. They are only going to get helped if we as a society decide that we are going to all take up the moral obligation of making certain nobody needs to suffer in this country because they can't afford healthcare.

This isn't about freedom of choice or any other talking point. This is about rich people not wanting to pay slightly higher taxes.

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 259 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:33:52 PM
@Essersmith

"You prioritize your and everyones freedom higher than everyones care for less fortunates."

No, I prioritize everyone's freedom equally high. You give preference to the freedom of those who believe as you do by advocating that the state force others to behave as you believe they should.

"While Id chose to pay 40% of my salary to cover all aspects of a functioning system (not just healthcare) any day of the year. Which, I believe, also gives a greater freedom to everyone. I respect that you dont."

I never said I didn't. What I said was that I do not want the state *forcing* me to do so.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:32:32 PM
Because I KNOW you will not have the money necessary to cover your medical expenses.


Yet I'm almost certainly going to spend far more on insurance premiums than actual medical bills, so that's statement moot.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:21:30 PM
@AntEconomist

Very well, so its a matter of conflict of moral interests. - That is atleast a reason.
You prioritize your and everyones freedom higher than everyones care for less fortunates.


While Id chose to pay 40% of my salary to cover all aspects of a functioning system (not just healthcare) any day of the year. Which, I believe, also gives a greater freedom to everyone.
I respect that you dont.

Am i understanding it correctly or are you just stating a point of view?

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 259 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:09:15 PM
@Essersmith

"To me, if you do not support universal healthcare, you pretty much dont want to be good to others."

Those are false alternatives. You are requiring me to choose between "I agree that the state should force people to provide healthcare" and "I don't give a rat's a$$ about sick people."

I believe that each of us has a moral obligation to care for the less fortunate. I also believe that each of us has a moral obligation not to force others of us to conform to our wills. That leaves me, hopefully you, certainly others to contribute to caring for the sick voluntarily.

lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:05:05 PM
" I'm not doing what's necessary to take care of myself,"

Because I KNOW you will not have the money necessary to cover your medical expenses.Your plan is a fantasy that young men have because they don't understand how life works. Unless you are rich. Are you rich? Do you intend to get married and have kids? Will you sock away money for them, too? You must be rich!

LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
 4486 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:57:47 PM
'a) slavery is at least sometimes acceptable (that's the only way to ensure enough doctors when efforts to "make it attractive enough to become a doctor" fail), '

The whole slave trade in doctors is a silent scandal.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:56:47 PM
oh and:
"Simply let the government do whatever the hell 50.1% of the people vote for it to do."

50.1% is not (and should not be) accepted as the majority in many democratic countries.

Essersmith
Male, 18-29, Europe
 273 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:53:54 PM
@Anteconomist
You actually make a valid point in the distinction.
So lets rephrase: Everyone should have the right to healthcare.

Either you support that claim, or you believe like many others (unfortunatly), that those who (for whatever reason) can not afford their own healthcare are meaningless. That said is to the rest of us, that boyscouts should not help elderlies across the street, because they could have paid someone to do so if they needed the help.

The debate here is in essence: Do you wish good to your fellow man (All of them) or do you not wosh good for your fellow man?

To me, if you do not support universal healthcare, you pretty much dont want to be good to others.
Arguments against could be that the system can not support it or the public/officials are not mentally prepared for it.
Saying that i dont want to pay for X is a horrible argument, since you might aswell be X yourself.

LillianDulci
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2696 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:41:37 PM
"I'm in the UK so I genuinely don't know how your system works. Are you saying you're allowed to die if you can't afford an operation?"

It depends. You show up in the emergency room with severe problems. Rapid heartbeat well above reasonable range, got shot, got in a car accident, things like that where you'll die without immediate treatment, you'll get treated. You'll just get a huge bill afterward even if you have insurance because insurance doesn't cover 100%.

Need something that requires planning ahead of time, such as cancer treatments or a surgery to fix a life threatening problem? Either too bad if you can't afford it, or you'll be charged thousands of dollars that you'll have no way of paying and have to file for bankruptcy. And a lot of people don't even realize they have such issues in the first place from not being able to afford a regular checkup at the hospital.

Pooptart19
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2280 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:39:47 PM
I'm going to skip all this crap and just post a link to a recent EconTalk podcast on the US health care system. I highly recommend listening to Russ Roberts' podcast.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:14:28 PM
Yeah, you're going to willingly sock away a million dollars and hopefully have it in that unknown time period when you'll need it. You can get in a huge car wreck today, buddy. See, you're one of those people the rest of us have to pay extra for because you refuse to do what you need to do to take care of yourself.


Now you've just contradicted yourself, first you say I'm saving up money for some emergency in my lifetime, and yet I'm not doing what's necessary to take care of myself, even though I'm actaully saving money. That and the character assassination, sounds like you're frustrated.

AntEconomist
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 259 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:13:58 PM
HolyGod

"Do you believe national defense, basic education, and police protection are a right in this country?"

OK, since you won't answer my questions, I'll answer yours and perhaps we'll advance that way.

One has the right to pursue an education, but not a right to an education. One has a right to defend one's life and property, but one does not have a right to force someone else to defend his life/property.

The distinction here is between negative rights (It is my right that X not be done to me) and positive rights (It is my right that you do X for me).

With positive rights, you cannot have equality under the law. If you have a positive right to X and I have a positive right to X and (as is usually the case) there is a limited supply of X, then the state must give preference to one of us over the other.

Unfortunately, the "right to healthcare" is a positive right. So, if you claim it, you are forced also to cla

Listypoos
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2580 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:09:10 PM
AntEconomist, what horsepoo....

you mean a few republican politicians have said it recently and been lambasted for it...they are not great minded political philosophers however you want to dress it up in bullpoo.

Go on... go the whole hog and prove godwins law by equating social health care with either Hitler and the Nazis now.


lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
 1805 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:08:18 PM
"Right at SOME point, not everyday. One time, sixty years down the road. Thus putting money in an account I have total control over is more viable than some piece of paper that I'm more bound to wipe my ass with."

Yeah, you're going to willingly sock away a million dollars and hopefully have it in that unknown time period when you'll need it. You can get in a huge car wreck today, buddy. See, you're one of those people the rest of us have to pay extra for because you refuse to do what you need to do to take care of yourself. You're INVINCIBLE and will never get hurt. Yeah, thanks. Say, since you're so good at saving, how much money have you put away for retirement so far, because you have to do that, too, you know. Hope you have an awesome job!

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:02:45 PM
AntEconomist

Do you believe national defense, basic education, and police protection are a right in this country?

If you do, then by your reasoning you "must also claim that slavery is at least sometimes acceptable" (that's the only way to ensure enough soldiers, teachers, and policeman).

However those things have been rights for a long time in this country, and with the exception of the draft, we have never needed "slavery".

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