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Why Did Hostess Go Bankrupt? [Pic]

Hits: 18692 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: whodat6484
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:19:42 AM
Day before the negotiation, the reps met at an informal discussion...



BCTGM Dude: "F*ck takin' a drop! I'm gonna birdie this!!"
BCTGM Squad: "Look at that guy, he's a fighter!"
Teamster Squad: "We're screwed..."

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:26:51 PM
In the various articles linked & others I've looked at: Some say that in the past 10+ years the Unions have taken cuts, some say no cuts (layoffs though) and others say the BCTGM demanded a 1% increase for each of the next 3 years.

There's a lot of articles written, and very vew facts to be found!

Those huge, built-in increases to the pensions and other funds? THAT is what Hostess was trying to cut -rightly or not- it's what drove the company under.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:09:29 AM
Please cite proof that the workers demanded a pay raise


Me, CodeJockey, 5Cats et al did not say anything to this effect. In fact we said market forces and missteps on part of the management did lead to the financial erosion of Hostess. The Unions however namely the BCTGM were asking for ridiculous pensions and medical benefits (which management shouldn't have agreed to in the first place) and the BCTGM's decision to go on strike was the final act that drove Hostess into liquidation. Hell even the Teamsters laying some of the blame on the BCTGM.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:20:56 AM
...STFU 5Cats.


@madest: Why, is my shirt tucked in or something?


There you go: smoke another doobie and... you know...

@CodeJockey: Thanks for the support! @madest seems to think NO ONE (except himself) has ANY right to ANY opinion... especially Canadians!

It was announced in April and their full salaries were set to be reinstated "no later than Jan 1." Now THAT is to laugh!!


@chalket: let me understand this:
He gives up $900,000 pay...
...and you laugh at him... for not giving anything up...

What do you want? Blood? A kidney? What?

Runemang
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 2647 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 7:40:37 PM
Everything Hostess makes has become more and more "evil" and unhealthy and guiltful over the last decade or two. That sure as hell hasn't helped business I'm sure. But piss-poor management was the nail in the coffin.

chalket
Male, 50-59, Southern US
 2481 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 6:59:49 PM
5Cats: YOU look again. I was referring to the CEO (Greg Rayburn) who made the decision to cut salaries for himself and 3 other execs. So, yes, you DO have "reading comprehension" problems. It's not "to laugh," it's kinda sad, I thought Canada had better public schooling. *sigh*

Anyway, once again, he was NOT being altruistic. It was a symbolic act in response to their creditors complaint that they had converted prior bonus plans to salary trying to sidestep bankruptcy compensation regulations. It was announced in April and their full salaries were set to be reinstated "no later than Jan 1." Now THAT is to laugh!!

Please cite proof that the workers demanded a pay raise. They had already accepted cuts in pay and benefits when the company illegally stopped funding the pensions they had already agreed to. You can conjecture they demanded "RAISE OUR PAY!" but without a link that is just baseless conjecture, and rather silly too.

chalket
Male, 50-59, Southern US
 2481 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 6:24:45 PM
@MeGrendel
I admit I did misread that bit, thanks, though it still illustrates a major problem in our society's current pro-corporate mindset. Thanks for the correction (though no thanks for being a dick about it). As a liberal, facts are what I thrive on and strive for (unlike you) so I do try to be appreciative and acknowledge when I am corrected (again, unlike you). But hey, at least you've now proven you're capable of recognizing a fact when you see one... some of us have been wondering about that. Way to go!

ShadowVamp
Female, 18-29, Western US
 360 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 3:09:02 PM
I'm going to hope that the recipes are bought by another company and the same things come out by another company with another name. I really loved the Hostess 100 calorie packs; they were a great way to calm sugar cravings.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 2:26:38 PM
whodat, what part of that debt/cost mentioned next to 2009 is adjustable?

whodat6484
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3712 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 2:21:41 PM


CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 2:19:49 PM
Madest, that seems a bit harsh. Some of us weren't aware that you are conversation moderator here.

Were you in this company? If you were, is there some insight you can add?

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 2:16:23 PM
rickwhite-"I hope each and every one of you union-bashers gets to experience unfair treatment at work"

Let's see, the only real time I suffered 'unfair treatment at work', it was condoned BY the Union (that's why I'll never work for a Union again) or fell under the heading of EOE or other politically correct crap.

rickwhite-"maybe even a wage reduction"

I've had to do that, too. ALSO caused by, and condoned by, The Union.

rickwhite-"unpaid weekend work"

The only unpaid work I've ever done is volunteer work...which, of course, kinda the definition of.

madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6459 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 1:23:45 PM
STFU 5Cats. If you knew anything about business you'd be working. Besides this isn't your affair. It's not your country nor your company. Your views on this subject are meaningless to everyone.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25772 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 10:52:45 AM
...the CEO...

Look again, it was the "top CEOs" PLURAL, probably meaning 6 of them. And I lack "reading comprehension"? It is to laugh!!

and that CEO pay grew 127 times faster than worker pay.

As others have said, that is the USA trend over 30+ years, NOT a single thing relates it to Hostess's executive's pay, nothing.

Where's the bring forced to give the unions workers raises three times or face a walk-off? That's not on there.

@truTenrMan: Since that FACT doesn't fit @WhoDat's and others' "narrative" it is ignored!

They claim the Unions were "negotiating" but fail to say what their demands were: A company that's losing a million bucks a WEEK must... RAISE OUR PAY!
How reasonable!

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 10:31:27 AM
Rick, I'm not bashing unions for the sake.

This is not a sensible situation. Anyone including one of the two labor negotiators could understand what C11 was and they were getting ready to do C22.

You don't strike while the company is talking to DIP financing. It kinda removes the lenders' faith in the company to continue operating.

Like I said before, I think 8% pay cut was not nearly enough for this thing to have worked.
If I couldn't break even, I'd probably have quit a lot sooner after offering to sell the company to the employees in an exchange to attempt debt reduction (sounds like that's exactly what they were attempting, just not deeply enough.)

papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 579 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 10:23:00 AM
Really? and not one word about the insane union demands over the years? How about 800 different insurance plans (forced by union collaborative bargaining) or double driving to deliveries? Or the driver cannot unload, another union paid worker must do that? That list goes on and on and on... There is plenty of blame to go around on this one kiddos.

rickwhite
Male, 30-39, Canada
 151 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 10:09:12 AM
Why are Americans so passionate about eroding their standard of living?

Do you want to work like the Chinese? $40/week, 12 hour days, and be THANKFUL for that?

I've worked union jobs. Believe it or not, MOST of the workers busted their asses. Sure, a couple were lazy drunks abusing the union... but the majority worked hard. It's just like a non-union environment (that I've also worked in) where most of the people work hard, and a couple jerks take long lunches, download responsibilities to others, and leave early... often some of the higher-paid employees. And they were NEVER disciplined or terminated.

I hope each and every one of you union-bashers gets to experience unfair treatment at work, maybe even a wage reduction or unpaid weekend work. Enjoy.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 10:02:31 AM
$180 million in compensation!! Wow I never new it was the hazardous to make pastry!

muffalletta
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 547 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 9:28:09 AM
if you don't really wanna work, join a union or get a government job

TruTenrMan
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 2565 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 9:02:25 AM
Where's the bring forced to give the unions workers raises three times or face a walk-off? That's not on there.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12337 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 6:42:10 AM
Greedy workers and their greedier unions.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4652 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 5:52:17 AM
chalket-"CEO pay grew 127 times faster than worker pay"
Bakcagain21-"and that CEO pay grew 127 times faster than worker pay"

From reading the article, that statistic was not referring to Hostess CEO's.

But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 4:59:07 AM
Chalket, I am aware of the timing. Re-read that post; I was making a point:

What they proposed, 8% pay decrease, does not appear to be enough to make a significant difference. They really just plain old needed to shrink by 18 to 20%, 3300 to 3700 people.

8% was probably a last attempt to get everyone to agree on conditions required for new financing.
Instead, they were met by a work stoppage.

Would you lend money to people you knew couldn't pay their previous lender if conditions had not changed? (Remember: The previous lender is going to get effed by the new deal.)

trippyhippy9
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 562 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 4:31:12 AM
Privatize profit, socialize loss.

chalket
Male, 50-59, Southern US
 2481 Posts
Monday, November 19, 2012 3:32:17 AM
@Bakcagain21
My point was 1) that the CEO who made that "benevolent" pay cut had just become CEO after the bankruptcy was started, 2) that he STARTED at $100,000 a month, and 3) that the company (or rather the hedge funds that bought it) poured all their income into exec pay instead of equipment, marketing or workers.

Incidentally, for you and 5Rats both, I AM NOT TRYING TO GIVE A REASON FOR THEM GOING BUST. I am simply rebutting their claim that "It's all due to those %@#$@ Unions!" as so many here seem to be buying into. Hostess has been struggling for a long time, there are many reasons they failed and most of them relate to poor management decisions.

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