 Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 1069 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 2:26:26 PM
All the systems are bad. Europe's is better in some ways, but, for instance, cancer death rates are still higher and wait times are higher.
Time to think outside the box people. Maybe, just maybe, the best solution has never been tried before and we have to be creative human beings and think of something. Copying Europe won't work. Eurozone already double-dipped in this recession for a reason. |
|
 HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 2:25:37 PM
@lauriloo
Actually, perhaps I've done you a disservice by failing to explain further. Allow me to share:
We're still free to choose where to get care
With Obamacare as your sole insurer, would you be able to choose to go to a doctor who does not accept Obamacare?
Do you really think going without insurance and relying on the free market to make a liver transplant or months of cancer treatments affordable out of pocket would work?
Whoa killer - I never said that. I think the best option is to have an HSA with a "free market" HDHP. In this way, for non-critical events, you are personally responsible fiscally. For critical events, you are covered.
You see, my original statement was simply a critique of the one by @sutra. Somehow, she believes that the video endorsed Obamacare. My only statement was that it was not at all. You extrapolated more. |
|
HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 2:17:01 PM
To be honest, any system but the one you have now is better.
Agreed; this third party payer system is terrible. While I believe a single-payer system (such as Obamacare - kind of...) is a better option, I do not think it is the best option.
Either way, you are correct that this system is the worst. |
|
HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 2:15:32 PM
@lauriloo
How, exactly, does Obamacare interfere with hospitals setting their own prices?
I believe you've missed the point of the argument. The argument being made is that we should embrace a "free market" or capitalistic approach in which each person is capable of choosing their providers. The narrator frequently discusses that any system in which the payer is not the person receiving the care is dangerous.
With Obamacare, the person receiving the benefit is not directly the payer. Here to help, folks.
Here to help. |
|
 Tiredofnicks
Male, 30-39, Europe
3959 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 2:05:34 PM
To be honest, any system but the one you have now is better. |
|
 lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
791 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 1:59:53 PM
"Just so there is no confusion, this is the complete opposite of the Obama administration's healthcare plan. Did you really not get that?"
How, exactly, does Obamacare interfere with hospitals setting their own prices? We're still free to choose where to get care. Do you really think going without insurance and relying on the free market to make a liver transplant or months of cancer treatments affordable out of pocket would work? I don't get your point at all.
Making fairly routine, out patient procedures a reasonable price doesn't make EVERYTHING that can happen to a person affordable. Automobile body shops are on the free market but people still need car insurance to cover things that are bigger than a fender bender. |
|
 richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
416 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 1:22:31 PM
Anytime the gov. pays for anything it necessarily overpays because those receiving the funding, increase cost or spend surplus money to receive the same funding next time. This happens in everything that gets government funding from Military, to Construction, to Medicine. It creates "dead weight loss" and makes everything cost more and creates shortages, it can't do anything else. It may not be politically correct, but I choose the free market every time. |
|
 FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2869 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 1:08:49 PM
What Dragonace said. |
|
HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 1:04:50 PM
Just so there is no confusion this is a ringing endorsement of Obama administration healthcare plan.
Uhm... no.
Just so there is no confusion, this is the complete opposite of the Obama administration's healthcare plan. Did you really not get that? |
|
HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1152 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 1:02:57 PM
To anyone who agrees with the actions of this medical center: say hello to capitalism. This, my friends, is what so many of you are trying to fight against. |
|
 Dragonace
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
162 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 12:57:11 PM
Actually its neither an endorsement nor a rejection of Obamacare. This is simply showing an alternative option of transparent and affordable healthcare provided by doctors and surgeons which is trying to accomplish the same thing as Obamacare.
Its the hospitals/medical centers and pharmaceutical companies blatant upcharging of their products and services that have driven up the cost of healthcare, if there were more regulations on the way they bill and do business, these sorts of things wouldn't be needed. |
|
 sutra46
Female, 40-49, Asia
2008 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 12:41:21 PM
Just so there is no confusion this is a ringing endorsement of Obama administration healthcare plan.
|
|
lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
791 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 12:16:00 PM
I don't get the comparison with Obamacare the poster is trying to make. Since we didn't get universal healthcare, Obamacare doesn't change much about HOW we pay for healthcare, just makes it more available to the poor and makes sure more people are in the system so the costs are spread out more and that *should* bring costs down, if the insurance companies do the right thing. And making preventative care low cost or free will hopefully find issues early when they are easier and cheaper to treat. We all can still choose a high deductible plan to keep premiums low and choose one of these clinics to keep our out of pocket expenses down while we pay off the deductible. |
|
 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5283 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 11:56:29 AM
So it's administration that inflates the cost? NOOOOOOOOOO!
Good on this hospital, but it still wouldn't be without its share of problems. |
|
lauriloo
Female, 40-49, Midwest US
791 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 11:51:28 AM
Note the part where they say hospitals charge extra to make up for people who don't have insurance. At least Obamacare fixes that. Maybe if we had been able to get the single-payer system the GOP blocked, the gov would have more control over the costs. There's a reason all the countries with universal health care pay way less for healthcare than the USA. Administrative costs are a huge part of the cost of healthcare and if there is one system for record-keeping and billing it would be much better. The GOP protected the health insurance system just like their lobbyists wanted so we only got a partial solution to our outrageous healthcare costs. |
|
 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 11:49:34 AM
THIS explains why we don't need single payer. Third party payers unwittingly drive up costs by encouraging the providers to do so. |
|
 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 11:29:13 AM
That sounds like the way healthcare used to be, and it worked and didn't cost near as much. |
|
 ForSquirel
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
999 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 11:23:44 AM
not surprising at all.. |
|
 kitteh9lives
Female, 40-49, Eastern US
978 Posts
|
Friday, November 16, 2012 9:54:42 AM
Link: Oklahoma Doctors Vs Obamacare [Rate Link] - Is this how medicine should be? Cut out the insurance middle man and let the costs be equal to supply and demand! |
|
Back to Listing
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}