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Ron Paul's Farewell Speech

Hits: 6951 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Andrew155
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
InTheNameOf
Male, 30-39, Western US
 335 Posts
Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:06:08 PM
48 minutes - damn, thats a long fairwell....

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Friday, November 16, 2012 1:03:28 PM
...Societies, as in a group of people that provides for each of their members' needs, are formed voluntarily...

You believe you will find a friendly neighbor in time of need.
I know, because I have been in need where there were not friendly neighbors, that there needs to be a protocol in place to help a person bridge the periods between self reliability.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Friday, November 16, 2012 12:54:10 PM
People have a right to be stupid, govt have no responsibility to restrict them.

When it was an issue, it didn't have so much to do with stupidity as much as
-Sick animals
-Lack of pasteurization
-Lack of refrigeration before distribution
The dairy industry as it stands may be expensive to get into because of required equipment but, it grew into being that way in response to sickness and death.
It was regulated into improvement.

Not so different but, different enough to notice: Try living in Mexico for a week.
First thing I notice infrastructural was how homes had water tanks on their roofs and then, the >>decreased use of refrigerated trucking.<<
Food is hella saltier in the US, too.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10246 Posts
Friday, November 16, 2012 9:07:51 AM
1) Perfectly free markets lead to monopolies and fixed prices.
No that's corporatism

Because people used to die from it. Regulations on handling led to higher quality food.
People have a right to be stupid, govt have no responsibility to restrict them.
Shanty town children better solution then?
Societies, as in a group of people that provides for each of their members' needs, are formed voluntarily. Government is an outgrowth of that.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Friday, November 16, 2012 5:49:41 AM
"So many people in the world are wondering why this man wasn't elected"
"Why is this idea being ridiculed instead of being adopted?"
Even in this speech, there was a fair amount of shortsightedness up through cracked-pottery mixed in with Grandpa's wisdom.

1) Perfectly free markets lead to monopolies and fixed prices.
2) People protested like hell against a middle-eastern war. They were ignored.
3) "Why...restrict the drinking of raw milk?"
Because people used to die from it. Regulations on handling led to higher quality food.
4) "Why...regulate commodes in our homes?"
Municipal water conservation, D!ckweed...
5) "...can't take care of own needs...do it for them?"
Shanty town children better solution then?

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:35:33 PM
So many people in the world are wondering why this man wasn't elected the leader of that nation. Truly, the old saying holds true in that poor nation: "those who trade freedom for security deserve neither". Reason has been traded for madness.

insane_ai
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 686 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 2:49:09 PM
Ron Paul's message promotes personal freedom balanced by personal responsibility.

Why is this idea being ridiculed instead of being adopted?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:27:54 PM
... how far we've come from the initial conversation. And yet, the conversation has not yet devolved into simple name-calling.

This marks a new high point in the world of IAB.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:10:10 PM
"...if they excel in different fields..."
Yes:
-Ford, open heart.
-"Go Blue" experimental techniques.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:03:46 PM
It'd be fairly unwise to the only hospital org in a city die

Agreed, you would need to know the circumstances. Under normal circumstances, I would actually try to encourage another hospital system to come in.

If they closed because the town is too small to support a hospital, then I would suggest reducing it to a clinic. Kind of like the Post Office, it'd be nice to have them everywhere, but we need to draw the line at some point.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:00:46 PM
Oh. Well in SE Michigan, it's a much more level field to the point people not noticing a difference.

Hmm... I wonder if they excel in different fields then? For instance: Hospital A has a fantastic open-heart unit; Hospital B has a world-class burn center; so on and so forth.

Even here is Eau Claire, WI, we have two hospitals and we know to go to Mayo if something serious has happened. Sacrad Heart is fine for minor or routine things, but let's not kid ourselves that they are Mayo.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:59:42 AM
"as long as the government doesn't foolishly bail them out"
Foolishly depends on why they'd get bailed out.
It'd be fairly unwise to the only hospital org in a city die. Same time, you'd like proof that the conditions that led to the failure were addressed.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:53:22 AM
"I disagree. When I lived in Buffalo, NY..."
Oh. Well in SE Michigan, it's a much more level field to the point people not noticing a difference.

"Don't go there!! That place only employs people that didn't get hired elsewhere because they have cold hands!!"

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:52:05 AM
It hospital care was looked at like normal retail product, it'd be the cell service you received a bill for because someone accidentally handed you a phone.

In which case you would never go there again. Similarly, many others would end up going to the competitors. In time, the "bad" hospital will lose profits and fail (as long as the government doesn't foolishly bail them out).

What then will happen to all of those jobs and equipment??? Oh no's!

They will be consumed by another, better (successful) company. This series of events will continue to unfold over time, resulting in the best possible hospitals.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:49:06 AM
Botsford and Oakwood are not competing in an industry that fears "loss of interest in product line."

I disagree. When I lived in Buffalo, NY (before I had the good sense to move), it was well-known that you should go to ECMC instead of Buffalo General (or Mercy). Buffalo General was on the verge of closing and was untimately "gobbled up" by Kaleida Health. The hospital has since improved from my understanding.

Hospitals still have competition, and still need to compete with others. The only exception I can think of is in cities with only 1 hospital.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:45:49 AM
Does the hospital say: "That person has been here for two years. Time to replace them."
Are we testing surgeons for reduced operation duration? Continuous improvement there?
"This guy can do 20 of those in a day."
"This other guy can do 24 of those."

It hospital care was looked at like normal retail product, it'd be the cell service you received a bill for because someone accidentally handed you a phone.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:42:58 AM
"Why then, does Samsung and Apple continue to create new smartphones? Why do they invest so much money into outperforming each other?"
Botsford and Oakwood are not competing in an industry that fears "loss of interest in product line."
When does a person think "This hospital is using brand-x sutures. Those are itchy. That other hospital has brand-y which dissolve. Let's go there."

When a person is on the way to a hospital, often they are thinking "JESUS!!! I CAN'T FEEL MY LEGS!!! AAAAARRRRRGGGHHH!!! I CAN SEE MY RIBS!!!" or some such thing as two people take them to a place they did not specifically ask to go.


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:19:39 AM
Father was a physician.

Coincidentally, mine was too. My mother (and sister) are also nurses. I'm not sure what we gained from this insight.

just the hospital and it did not cost 21 G's to have me share a room with a guy who was ringing for help that didn't come until I got up

Ah, but you are discussing something else here. This is not a market factor, it is a social factor.

The doctors' fees weren't in that post

The hospital still needs mal-practice insurance regardless of if you were visited by the doctor. Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with the argument at hand?

Profit may be motive to act but, alone, it is not incentive to improve or even perform well.

Why then, does Samsung and Apple continue to create new smartphones? Why do they invest so much money into outperforming each other?

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:15:54 AM
So he's leaving for good? No more wheezing, rambling speeches full of half baked policies and vague appeals to "liberty" to justify them? No more black ops, doomed to fail convention shenanigans?




Why didn't somebody tell me sooner?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:13:21 AM
... Unless of course you mean they should file as a non-profit corporation (I'm not sure if you are arguing this or arguing for "wage caps" etc.)...

Even in this case though, it doesn't really change anything. There are many non-profit hospitals out there and they still cost the same amount. If this was truely an answer, and your hypothesis that regulations are too few, wouldn't reason stand to show the opposte?

Afterall, if there is too little regulation, then simple market factors will have greater effects. Given this, wouldn't a non-profit hospital have a significant cost advantage over others?

But they don't. If they did, more people would go to them, and they would slowly take over the for profit systems. This is evidence that I am correct that the market is over-regulated.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:12:40 AM
"Off the top of my head, tort laws and mal-practice requirements"
Father was a physician.
The doctors' fees weren't in that post, just the hospital and it did not cost 21 G's to have me share a room with a guy who was ringing for help that didn't come until I got up, hopped over (broken ankle) and helped him myself.

Profit may be motive to act but, alone, it is not incentive to improve or even perform well.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:57:25 AM
Exactly what current regulations cause a hospital to charge $21K for 2 nights in a bed and 2 sandwiches?

Off the top of my head, tort laws and mal-practice requirements; there are many more though.

The hospital itself should not be a for-profit business.

What then is the incentive to excel? Profit alone drives the desire to out-perform the competition. Without profit, how would a hospital afford specialists? Without exceptional pay, why would someone devote nearly two decades of their life to becoming a neurosurgeon?

Again, profit is the driver. The answer is not to limit or abolish profit, but to remove barriers that decrease profit.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5126 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:49:16 AM
"In my opinion, it appears to be far too regulated."
Exactly what current regulations cause a hospital to charge $21K for 2 nights in a bed and 2 sandwiches?
I know: The chick that I repeatedly told I do not take pain relievers, who finally just fluffed the pillow was at least 18-G's.
F*cking dry assed, tasteless half-a-club sandwich? A G each, right?

The hospital itself should not be a for-profit business.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:30:57 AM
Whoops - link didn't work: RonPaul.com

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:25:17 AM
@CodeJockey

Very well expressed. I disagree.

Really? It seems to me that every other phrase he says is "free market". Here seems to be an accurate portrayal of his beliefs: RonPaul.com

It appears to be unregulated where it needs to be.

In my opinion, it appears to be far too regulated.

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