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 cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 6846 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 4:00:32 PM
nageki, it is because what happens in the US affects the rest of the world. |
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 Nageki
Male, 30-39, Western US
89 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 2:36:21 PM
I'm just gonna keep posting it until someone quotes me or something I guess... Why does a Canadian (5Cats specifically... but others out there as well) care about American politics at all? It's a valid question I want answered, so please quit deleting my posts about it... |
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cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
6846 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 12:03:23 PM
tl;dr: Facts > Interpretation in "my" humble opinion, because I don't believe interpretation should be delivered as fact. |
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cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
6846 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 12:00:42 PM
5cats, we seem to partially agree here. The amount of votes someone gets is a fact. Whether or not that won is a separate yet related fact. There is no interpretation really needed upon delivering these points. Where things get muddy is when you have many different people looking at the different opinions that are [in many cases loosely] based on the facts instead of the facts themselves. This causes arguing using the opinions rather than the facts, and this is just misinformation being flung in all directions while the facts are completely disregarded. I have seen this done by one here frequently by those suffering from different cases of severe polarization. |
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 10:55:06 AM
patchgrabber: No, use of those words may still weaken the argument, because as I said before only one exception is needed to prove it untrue. However, as I just did, people can claim that it's just a generalization and get away pretty much unscathed.
Btw, I don't recall saying, "The private sector always runs things better than government". If I did it was meant as a generalization. There are certainly things that only the government can do so there would be no way to compare those aspects.
These are no "semantic gymnastics", these are just wise rules to follow when arguing. If you wish to be unwise in your arguing, go right ahead. |
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 5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
16922 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 10:25:08 AM
It's A Fact! 24 seconds of Kids In The Hall being parodied.
The Real "It's A Fact" Girl From Kids In The Hall.
Every time I hear those three words I think of the "It's A Fact" girl... and laugh my arse off!
(be QUIET @patchy! I said every, and I... mean... every!) (lolz, eh?) |
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5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
16922 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 10:14:25 AM
I have been trained that facts are facts, and they should be shared as such. Any deviation from this is no longer a fact, but an opinion based on those facts.
@cobrakiller: Without context, what good is a fact? I don't say there's "no such thing" as facts, DUH! I say that once the "human equation" enters the picture, things usually get "muddy" real fast.
It's a Fact: Joe Smith got 5,000 votes this election!
>What does that MEAN? Did he win? Is that better or worse than expected? Do only 4,000 people live in his riding?
Interpritation > facts (In My Humble Opinion of course!)
@patchy: We're on a chat-site, not handing in a PHD paper. We have a character counter, we have to "cut corners" all the time.
If @crakrJak was pedantic over word use too, the this applies to him as well.
95% = close enough to "always" ffs! We can't say X and then spend 3 paragraphs itemizing what we mean.. |
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 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 6:48:00 AM
but that generalization doesn't hurt anybody personally. That's the difference.
LOL! So now it's ok and doesn't weaken your argument...unless it's about a specific person. You are just the height of too-muchery. So then by your logic, by saying the word "all" in "all puppies are cute" somehow *doesn't* weaken your argument that puppies are cute? For that matter, what are corporations and governments made of? People. Just another heap paradox. And since your previous statement that the private sector always runs things better than government is indeed false, you look doubly the fool. Weasle and play your semantic gymnastics all you want, but your key point was that it weakens your argument. Whether it's about a person, a group of people, dogs or inanimate objects, it doesn't strengthen your argument to use one of those words, and it still doesn't make you any less wrong. |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 6:31:55 AM
Cobra: Almost forgot, Apology accepted.  |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 6:29:33 AM
Cobra: No I didn't have it in mind, nor did a search through 3 weeks of posts. What I did is look at liberals, in this post, click on their nicknames, and peruse their posts. On the third name 'Smagboy', I found it. Took about 10 minutes or so.
patchgrabber: I said, "Those 3 words are not good to use in the context of another human being." Please note the "Human Being" part.
Human beings have feelings, human beings can be fallible without being considered a 'failure' and vice versa.
You can generalize non-human entities without harm. For instance saying, "All puppies are cute" is a generalization. Of course there are non-cute puppies, but that generalization doesn't hurt anybody personally. That's the difference. |
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cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
6846 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 6:09:34 AM
Crackr, I tip my hat to you, and sincerely apologize. I will do my best in the future to steer clear of those three little words you pointed out.
I do have to ask, however [and I swear I am not being a d*ck, but actually curious], did you already have this one in mind, or did you actually go back through the passed three weeks of posts to find one. If so, I also have to give you credit for dedication.
This proves that it doesnt happen all of the time, but "much" of the time on both sides I hear this BS, and it just gets annoying.
5Cats, sorry, but if what you say about politics and it being impossible for facts to be unbiased, that is just sad. I work in the science and research field, and from work and years of schooling I have been trained that facts are facts, and they should be shared as such. Any deviation from this is no longer a fact, but an opinion based on those facts. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 5:53:07 AM
Only one more day and four more versions of Mitt Romney to go! |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 5:50:06 AM
Every time? As I've said before, nobody 'Ever', 'Always' or 'Never' says or does anything. People that resort to accusations of that nature are being hyperbolic, and exaggerating. Those 3 words are not good to use in the context of another human being. They weaken your argument, because than all that person has to do is find one exception and you've lost.
Yeah, it reminds me of that time you said that the private sector always runs things better than government, seems so long ago....no wait it was last week. I mean I knew you had a big mouth, but both feet? |
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 Draculya
Male, 30-39, Asia
6297 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 5:49:41 AM
If Spitt sait it, it must be a lie. You wait till Dickwad is president and is expected to lie to the nation 24/7. |
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 trippyhippy9
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
499 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 4:51:01 AM
That just the false ones.
Here are the "Pants on fire" statements. |
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 Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
1052 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 4:02:14 AM
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/?page=1 |
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Andrew155
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
1052 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 4:01:12 AM
I find it interesting that "regulations haven't increased that much" under Obama. Isn't that what Obama supporters like about him? |
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5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
16922 Posts
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Monday, November 05, 2012 12:26:21 AM
5cats, that just untrue. Not every source shows bias, some just show facts.
@cobrakiller: Um, no? It IS true? It's human nature?
What is the "truth"? Is mine the same as yours?
Aside from that, there's this:
"Some just show facts"
ALL the facts? Or the facts which support you cause (and not those "other" facts)
Example: One can show nothing but facts, yet by NOT showing facts which DIS-prove your case, is it "unbiased"? No!
Whose facts? Mine or yours? Who decides which facts are true? Is THAT person biased? Who decides which facts to put in and which to leave out?
NO ONE is truely neutral on EVERY issue. Outside of math and science, there's very few "indisputable facts" that exist!
Are they verifiable facts? Disputable facts? How solid is the evidence? Is the source for the evidence biased?
I got more, but the counter says 877... |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:41:32 PM
Cobra: Challenge accepted.
Right here
You Commented - Check
I Disagreed - Check
Political Subject - Check
Liberal Bias Claim - Nope
Waiting for retraction..... |
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cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
6846 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 7:11:03 PM
crakr, now you are the one judging incorrectly. It is very possible that every time i see you disagree with a source, you claim liberal bias. Are you saying that there is no possible way that this is true? if you can find one time that you know I have seen you disagree with a political post and not claim liberal bias, I will retract my statement. |
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CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 6:38:41 PM
Cobra: every time I see you post on a link you dont agree with you claim liberal bias
Then your recollection is selective and incorrect. This is the problem, you see what you want to see and filter out the rest. So even though you have seen times that I haven't called 'liberal bias', you only remember the times that I have. Thus you believe it's been 'every time'. |
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cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
6846 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 5:28:53 PM
Crakr, okay, how about "every time I see you post on a link you dont agree with you claim liberal bias". Although its very telling that instead of giving an answer, you just decided to be kind of a d*ck about it.
5cats, that just untrue. Not every source shows bias, some just show facts. It is just that people see bias when it shows facts that someone doesnt want to be correct. |
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5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
16922 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 12:58:39 PM
@FP and @HG: I recall being cut off at 839, it p*ssed me off so much it's burned into my memory!
It's because the counter doesn't count certain things, but the display DOES count them...
... or something.
Anyhow: close to 900 = time to "Post Reply"
Glad you liked my long-winded explaination! McLuhan = Genius! (A little Robert A Wilson mixed in there too) |
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 FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2855 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 12:02:14 PM
'IAB randomly cutting off comments that fall within the stated 1000 character limit is F.UCKING BULLS.HIT.'
I've found that the 1000 character limit is an overstatement. If you get over roughly 950 it will cut off the end. |
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 HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2902 Posts
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Sunday, November 04, 2012 11:21:51 AM
5Cats
"KNOWING the Medium is flawed = able to adjust your Sensors. Remember the "
HERE is something we can agree on 5Cats. IAB randomly cutting off comments that fall within the stated 1000 character limit is F.UCKING BULLS.HIT. |
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