 8BitHero
Male, 18-29, Europe
 5420 Posts
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Wednesday, October 24, 2012 6:01:22 AM
Even if they did, why would we listen to them? We don't listen to them regardless of what they say. |
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 OldOllie
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
8727 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:14:27 PM
I hope every scientist and engineer in that country goes on strike. It's time that Atlas shrugged. |
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 richanddead
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
400 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 1:26:11 PM
that's sad sight all-around. |
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 Reignblazer
Male, 18-29, Europe
1554 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:59:55 AM
Preposterous. |
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 LordJim
Male, 50-59, Europe
2410 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:37:58 AM
@madest,
You usually make sense, what happened ere. They didn't ignore the readings. They read them and concluded that there was no evidence of raised probability of a major event. The political appointee may have presented that as 'no probability' but that isn't the same.
It is a high risk area with a lot of low level activity. There was a high probability of a major even at some time, but nothing indicated it was imminent. So 'no raised risk' was accurate.
The Concordia comparison does not work; the seismologists did not increase the chance of a major event. The captain did.
If you ask a scientist to predict the future you are asking the wrong question. At best they can provide the best odds available given the data and the state of the science. At the moment seismology is still just getting started, if you bang up scientists every time the reality goes against the odds they gave you, then who the hell would work for you?
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 Qystein
Male, 18-29, Europe
159 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:29:00 AM
cmon! Italy makes the USA look like a first world country! |
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 HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
1139 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:19:45 AM
Only in Europe... (not so funny when the American does it, is it?) |
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 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:07:04 AM
Yeah, "view it as a camping experience" very low brow but it only says he was seriously out of touch. |
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 NNoamfer
Male, 13-17, Asia
994 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:06:09 AM
"How is ignoring seismic readings any different"
Because seismic reading doesn't tell them when an earthquake is going to happen, and not how strong. It doesn't tell them anything, therefore it's out of their control, and not their fault. |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 11:00:31 AM
[quote">Government officials at the time arrested one of the scientists who accurately predicted the major quake for inciting panic[/quote">
Radon predictions have MAJOR caveats
Of course now this makes the government all more absurd, it will prosecute people for warning and NOT for warning people. |
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 Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
1270 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:36:36 AM
@Cajun Government officials at the time arrested one of the scientists who accurately predicted the major quake for inciting panic. Also, what Quackor said. There IS fault to find here if one digs deep enough. Problem is it happened during a notoriously corrupt government. Read some of Silvio's quotes around the time of the quake. Greaseball to the extreme. |
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 Draculya
Male, 30-39, Asia
6308 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:25:03 AM
@temp4comment so you think it's your God's fault? Or was it one of the other gods from one of the 4,200 recognised religions around the world? |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:18:09 AM
The scientists did their job, but now the Italian government is moving the goal posts in order to save face. Shame on them, the prosecutor in this case is the one who should be fired and charged with obstruction. |
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 zeebeedee
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
500 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:15:04 AM
The Spanish inquisition had the excuse that it was long ago. |
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 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:02:57 AM
Maybe they should be fired, but manslaughter charges are ridiculous.
This has been my point from the beginning, although even being fired is a little much, at least for the scientists, who did absolutely nothing wrong. |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:00:29 AM
He's not entirely wrong though, flagrant mismanagement requires punishment.
What mismanagement occured? Are you suggesting that officials should start creating panic over could very well be a minor tremor and nothing else? |
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mikelae18
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
80 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:59:20 AM
The increasing lack of scientific understanding in this world is troubling, and this verdict is more evidence of it. The seismic activity leading up to the quake wasn't significant enough to predict a major quake. Maybe they should be fired, but manslaughter charges are ridiculous. |
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 CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
2993 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:53:53 AM
if you go to the link i provided you can see that there have been 556 earthquakes greater than Mag 4 in the last 30 days. now tell me how easy it is to predict when a major earthquake will happen and where |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:53:03 AM
@securitywyrm: Ha, nice, but I think it's more like this:
Government: "Will there be a blizzard today?"
Weatherman: "It's not likely."
*blizzard happens*
Government: "It DID happen. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200." |
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:52:22 AM
madest: No scientist can predict the time and place of major earthquakes, it's just not possible. The best scientists can do is offer risk assessment to certain regions. This prosecution of 6 Italian scientists is idiotic. |
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securitywyrm
Male, 18-29, Western US
87 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:49:59 AM
It's like this...
Government: "What are the odds this pair of dice will come up with a six?"
Scientist: "A bit less than three percent."
*Rolls dice*
Government: "It came up a 12! You were wrong, it was 100%" |
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 Quackor
Male, 18-29, S. America
2665 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:49:51 AM
so if your mom tells you to jump into a well, will you jump? |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:49:29 AM
How is ignoring seismic readings any different?
Who said they ignored the seismic readings? Here's what Enzo Boschi, one of the defendents, said March 31, 2009: "It is unlikely that an earthquake like the one in 1703 could occur in the short term, but the possibility cannot be totally excluded."
Sounds to me like he said nothing wrong here, and even acknowledged the possibility of a quake, but YOU CANNOT PREDICT EARTHQUAKES IN THE SHORT TERM. You're making up stuff as you go, @Madest.
Did they do their job? No.
Did not doing the job endangered the population? Yes.
But they DID do their job. If anyone is even remotely at fault it's the politician who makes the policy decisions. Why blame scientists who did exactly what they were supposed to? |
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CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
2993 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:49:14 AM
@madest: earthquakes happen all the time. small and big. you can view earthquakes here and as you can see they are very common. trying to predict them is far from easy or accurate. but scientists try the best they can. not all small tremors result in a major quake to follow. in fact most dont as they happen all the damn time.
as far as your captain goes he made a choice to put people in danger instead of doing his job. these scientists were trying to do their job the best they can to prevent danger if possible, not put them into danger by being reckless like the captain |
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Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
1270 Posts
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Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:48:36 AM
"Did they do their job? No."
They did their job. Berlusconi's administration told them what not to say, so they didn't say it. Heh. Oh, guess who ISN'T going to prison for six years... |
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