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Preacher Gives Interesting Gay Rights Speech

Hits: 8214 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
sicker
Female, 30-39, Canada
 319 Posts
Monday, October 22, 2012 6:07:20 AM
Church AND state. Not CHURSTATE. Separate entities. That's the end of the argument, right there. When I see religious leaders who recognize that, it warms my little homo heart.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, October 22, 2012 5:06:13 AM
"The point is: gender is NOT changeable. But that has almost nothing to do with sexual orientation, eh?"
No, they cannot be perfectly correlated.
Even our concepts of "absolutely straight" and "completely gay" are just that, concepts.

There are analog balance, not discrete selection. Most people are mostly toward one way or the other but, some people fall in the middle physically, sexually and in terms of personal identity.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25771 Posts
Monday, October 22, 2012 4:24:19 AM
There was a Canadian person who had his penis destroyed as an infant...

@CodeJockey: yes, I am VERY familiar witht taht case!
-He was a twin, during the birthing process the doctor pulled with those tong-things and destroyed his genetalia.
-Doctors re-assigned him to be female, using the brother as a 'control group' they studied his developement intensely.
-they gave him hormones and stuff as a child = not good for you.
-he was messed up and very unhappy his whole life, the the "scientists" claimed a huge victory for gender research in the 70s. NOW it's viewed as a case lesson in what NOT to do!

He was re-assigned as a male, did get married & raised 3 kids. His brother also suicided iirc...

The point is: gender is NOT changeable. But that has almost nothing to do with sexual orientation, eh?

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, October 22, 2012 3:03:46 AM
Looking at other aspects of my life, trying to fit myself into a tight little box of psychological development has been a non-fit and I suspect others are in the same boat.

CodeJockey
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 5196 Posts
Monday, October 22, 2012 3:00:42 AM
Cats
There was a Canadian person who had his penis destroyed as an infant during a circumcision experiment with a laser scalpel.

The parents followed the doctors' recommendation of sexual reassignment surgery along with other treatment.

Raised as a female, some time around age 13 or 14, this person noticed: "Hey... I REALLY like girls..."
So the parents decided to explain what happened.

He tried living one way, then another, finally marrying a female.
Last I heard, in 2006, he committed suicide.

Most people are born into a gender identity, some people decide gender identity. Within each of those, some people decide orientation, most are drawn one way or another and gender identity can not be exclusively associated to orientation.

I have said elsewhere, I KNEW I liked females at age 4 and even had specific taste.
Looking at other aspects of my life, trying to fit myself into a tight little box of psychological develo

knight3000
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 25 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 5:56:31 PM
How does something immoral, when done privately, become moral when it is done collectively? Furthermore, does legality establish morality? Slavery was legal; apartheid is legal; Stalinist, Nazi, and Maoist purges were legal. Clearly, the fact of legality, alone, cannot be the talisman of moral people -- Walter E. Williams

TheiaRenown
Female, 18-29, Southern US
 425 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 3:56:20 PM
Love it!

Byfield
Male, 18-29, Europe
 468 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 1:32:11 PM
Good point, took too long

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:08:53 AM
How is it no longer okay to suggest a black woman shouldn't have that job, but it's still okay to say skinny white kid and RuPaul shouldn't get the job? It just doesn't make any sense.


Neither society nor politics has any requirement to be rational or internally consistent.

The "we don't hire people like that" argument is rational and internally consistent because it's amoral. Business isn't about morals. It's about profit. It's about whether that person would increase or decrease profits and that's largely about what prejudices are common amongst your employees, customers and potential customers.

So, for example, my employer used to forbid men to grow hair longer than collar length because it was unmasculine and would offend some customers, thus decreasing profits. That was up until about 10 years ago.

What changes are what characteristics are political issues and thus deemed worthy of forcing employers to take a reducti

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 8:52:00 AM
So humans IMPRINT their sexual orientation at some point, probably close to puberty, no one knows exactly.
That better?



It might or might not be a more accurate statement of your hypothesis, but that's made irrelevant by the fact that it conflicts with the available evidence.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 5:59:16 AM

@ auburnjunky, in your example the teacher is not a pedophile. She's an ephibophile. Pedophiles are aroused by prepubescent children, not teens.

I get what you were saying, just making that clarification.

Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1270 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:53:10 AM
Today it's okay for them to say that skinny white kid or RuPaul shouldn't have the job because of the way they look. How is it no longer okay to suggest a black woman shouldn't have that job, but it's still okay to say skinny white kid and RuPaul shouldn't get the job? It just doesn't make any sense.

Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1270 Posts
Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:47:48 AM
Chik-fil-a. I brought them up because that seemed to be an effective way at pointing out this bill had nothing to do with marriage. I'm not even sure if this town has any, and I'm certain no one representing the food chain was speaking at that town hall.

Skinny white kid. I do not believe I articulated what I was trying to say there properly. I speak in hypothetical's regularly. If you WERE that skinny white kid, as I stated at the end of my posts, or the black woman fifty five years ago in my previous post, what exactly makes you less qualified for the position? I feel there is a good chance a couple people here agree with what was said in the ~hour long video, otherwise I wouldn't continue to debate this, so as such the line of questioning is directed at them. Fifty+ years ago they would've been fine stating that black woman shouldn't have the job because of how she looked.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25771 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:48:58 PM



Hee hee, the Calico + Fish picture, I forgot that I cropped it for internet use.

About me: In the past 7 years I've gotten more grey and a little chubbier...

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25771 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:45:55 PM
Disregardless: I understand your point: discrimination = bad.
BUT!
No need to lecture me dude: I AM the #1 object of discrimination in the world: mentally ill!
IF I were to admit my illness, NO ONE would ever hire me, not even to mop floors (nevermind be a ChildCare worker, which I am, at least I was before I got too sick to work).

So you want to talk discrimination? I'll go 10 rounds baby! I live with worse than any gay in North America every day.


Me, in Calgary, about 7 years ago...
"Hey, I'll take your picture!"
Me: "Ok, let me fix my hair..." click!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25771 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:38:22 PM
FIRST OF ALL @Scuzoid: RuPaul can work at Chic-Fil-A all he/she likes! CFA has NEVER discriminated against hiring gays not even one time! It's a fact - strawman.

"I've seen your picture on here 5cats."
You have? I singularly do not recall posting one. Perhaps in the thread where @LillianDulci posted her pic? (I admired @LD's courage!) idk... If so I was likely hugging a kitty (Calico!) and wearing a shirt with a fish on it. You hate me for how I "look"? Go straight ahead dude, knock yourself out.

"skinny straight white kids in tight black leather and long hair"
You Mean HIM?
I was joking dude! That's not me, I wish I were still so skinny! lolz! ZOMG!
I have two cats? He has 2 cats! I wear leather wristbands with chains? He wears leather wristbands with studs...
LOLZ!

Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1270 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:38:48 PM
Now, take the 70 year old speaker in the longer video, and tell him it's okay not to hire YOU because of the way you look and his prejudice around that look. That's exactly what this law seeks to fix. Only, it's not a law for skinny straight white kids in tight black leather and long hair, it's for the skinny gay white kids in tight black leather and long hair.

What if you were actually that skinny white kid in that photo and denied a job just because that business owner figured you'd be annoying to work with?

Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1270 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 9:31:21 PM
@5cats and anyone else trying to argue the christian basis on discrimination and who it should apply to. Who cares? Does it really matter I can't tell you why RuPaul is gay? Is that remotely necessary to determine whether or not RuPaul should be allowed to work, provided he meets the qualifications, at Chik-fil-a? So he dresses like a woman even though he clearly is not one, uniform standards fix that. So he has an annoying high pitched voice, how is that any different than having to work around or order from someone with a Boston accent? So you don't like his hobbies, don't inquire.

I've seen your picture on here 5cats. I don't like ANYTHING about the way you look. I'm a violent person, I don't deny this. I accept that when I see someone who looks like you, I want to physically hurt you. A large part of the reason I don't is because it's against the law.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25771 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 8:08:13 PM
When Jesus said homosexuality is wrong...no, wait, he didn't say anything about homosexuality at all.

@Angilion: Jesus never said pedophilia is wrong either, eh?
Just tieing the two arguements together to make @inaria happy

When I say "all sexual orientation is learned" people get all bothered by it.
Perhaps "imprinted" is a better term? It isn't a conscious decision (one definition of learning) but a process that occures naturally within the person.
Consider baby ducks: they do NOT instinctively follow their mother, ok? They IMPRINT on something soon after they are born, and follow THAT around! Ducklings are famous for imprinting on dogs, cats, pigs, people & etc. YouTube is full of videos...
So humans IMPRINT their sexual orientation at some point, probably close to puberty, no one knows exactly.
That better?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25771 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:59:54 PM
Bah..it said I was under 1000 characters.

lolz @poonoodle! Welcome to IAB! The character counter is broken, I've been cut off in the low 800's! But we just grin and bear it, no use in complaining...

Pedophilia is a psychological disorder, classified by science.

@FP: SO WAS homosexuality, learn your history dude!

I guess in a weird monty python way

@ferdyfred: People who live in Winnipeg just LOVE Monty Python. It's a cultural thing...

its the apocalypse in a couple months.

@anaria: YAY! I personally cannot wait for it all to end
"Also, why are we still discussing the absurd paedophilia comment?"
- because it's valid. If one 'sexual orientation' is "inborn" then they all are. MY arguement is that none are - fyi.

Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1270 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:29:03 PM
I restate this because, I mean, does anyone HERE actually think THAT is a bill that shouldn't pass? I get the "Save our marriage for only us straight people!" You have some weird ownership issues when it comes to marriage due to your religion. Whatever, I'll let you have that argument even if I feel you're wrong. But this, THIS? You're telling me it's okay for your neighbors son to go to Iraq as a gay man, but when he comes back, he doesn't deserve a job in your town because he has rainbow flag bumper stickers and one of those high pitched nasally voices queers are so found of? Seriously? Grow up. I've done a past a present check, I've only actually got along well with about 30% of the people I've worked with. That does NOT mean the other 70% shouldn't have had the job, and it certainly doesn't mean because I didn't get along with a gay or fan of jersey shore, no gays or fans of jersey shore should have the job.

Scuzoid
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1270 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:08:43 PM
Why are people still under the impression this is a marriage bill? It's a city ordnance, they can't change marriage laws solely in the city. It's an anti-discrimination bill (Be it age/race/LBGT/religion) to facilitate fair hiring practices, fair rental/real estate practices, fair union membership practices, and fair use of public facilities. That's it.

CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2994 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:06:34 PM
well played sir

knight3000
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 25 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:56:02 PM
cpjustice.org/stories/storyReader$1178

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Saturday, October 20, 2012 6:34:17 PM
The problem is nothing in the bible supports racial segregation.


It does if you want it to. Just like with homosexuality.

The point being made was that *exactly the same arguments* were and are being used. It's a technique for illuminating prejudice that's so engrained that it isn't even seen - you state exactly the same prejudice against a different group, one that is isn't socially acceptable to have that prejudice against. The point is that it's exactly the same prejudice. Switching groups just makes it visible.

When Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, he didn't qualify it by saying, 'Only the neighbors that look like you'.


When Jesus said homosexuality is wrong...no, wait, he didn't say anything about homosexuality at all.

Are you sure you want to bring Jesus' words into this? Because if you do, you have nothing.

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