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Mitt Romney Debates Himself

Hits: 5251 | Rating: (2.8) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: ledzeppeloyd
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16897 Posts
Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:56:48 AM
patchgrabber: He has said how the cuts would be done, through congress, through the ways and means committee. He's set the goal, like a leader does, and he's leaving it to the congress to meet that goal.

The minutia of how and what is cut is not the role of the president, that's the role of congress. The president is supposed to lead, Obama hasn't lead, that's why we've been so screwed over the last 4 years.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5691 Posts
Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:25:33 AM
@CJ: You are so full of sh*t. What, exactly, were the contradictions Obama's made that outnumber Romney's? And the fact that you aren't even defending him, merely using some logical fallacy to distract the argument, speaks volumes. Keep on supporting a flip-flopping mystery man who hasn't told you *how* he's going to do any of the outrageous things he says he's going to. Anything for the elephant, huh CJ?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16897 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:32:53 PM
FoolsPrussia: It is possible for someone to be 'pro-life' and not want the total elimination of abortion, in all cases.

Also there are no 'abortion bills', pro or con, in the house or senate right now, which explains his earlier statement.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3397 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:40:12 PM


HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:28:25 PM
@HolyGod

Obama took office in a recession he didn't cause. OF COURSE growth has been slow. I'm just showing there has been growth.

In the case of these stats, Obama actually "benefits" from coming in during a recession year. In essence, it allows us to create an inflated showing of growth.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that, if Obama is pulling us out of a recession (as in, we've already hit the lowest point), we SHOULD see "explosive" growth? We certainly have seen this type of growth in a "private" market - stocks. I doubt you'll deny that both DOW and NASDAQ have recovered well.

Why then, if a "private" market can explosively recover from a recession, do the other stats fail to explode in a similar manner?

Consider this, in Bushes first term, these improved: GDP per capita, NASDAQ, DOW, Unemployment, Change in Jobs, Ave. Earnings, Employed People, and New Home Builds.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16897 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:59:33 PM
That's still fewer contradictions than Obama has made in the last 4 years.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13235 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:02:18 PM
He did somehow get Mass with a surplus budget his last two years. Then we elected the democrat known as Dolittle Patrick and we're back in debt.....


markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:31:55 PM
"Nope but the inability to tell the truth probably lies in our flock of Kennedy lemmings."

"I a did not kill that woman, Mrs Kopechne"

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4969 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:18:58 PM
HumanAction

"Therefore, if this stat is going to be used as evidence that Obama is making good economic choices, then logic dictates that the same person MUST agree that Bush made better economic choices."

1. Obama took office in a recession he didn't cause. OF COURSE growth has been slow. I'm just showing there has been growth.

2. Of all the stats I posted, that one is probably the least useful. Wages go up under every president. Wages go up fairly constantly if only based on inflation.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 4969 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:11:26 PM
cobrakiller

"I was never a big fan of fairy tales."

You know what? Maybe that is why the religious folks are behind mitt. Christians have the ability to accept absurd lies on faith alone.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13235 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:00:43 PM
So he governed Massachusetts from Detroit?


Nope but the inability to tell the truth probably lies in our flock of Kennedy lemmings.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:38:55 AM
"He's from Detroit."

So he governed Massachusetts from Detroit?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10226 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:36:43 AM
I'm not sure it's fair to say Bush did better in his first term


I don't think so either, but going with those calculations alone that is a conclusion you could draw. I don't think it would be a very honest one though. Bush was a horrible President, he wasted most of his political capital on two gloriously unjustified wars when he should've directed it towards FM and FM and the housing bubble they were creating.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:35:44 AM
Paul Ryan's convention speech was littered with lies. He had the fact checkers working overtime. Wonder if he will flip-flop too in tomorrows debate to try and throw Biden off. Should be a fun one to watch. The VP debates get a little more heated.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13235 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:29:19 AM
What is it with the Massachusetts boys and their inability to tell the truth?


He's from Detroit.

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3397 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:25:11 AM
'This means Bush had a growth of 21% in his first term followed by 7% in his second. So logically Bush did better than Obama in his first term. But then he wasted political capital on the wars rather than halting the housing bubble, then there was the bailouts.'

I'm not sure it's fair to say Bush did better in his first term. He was working with a functional economy when he came into office, which Obama wasn't. Not trying to blame Bush or anything, just stating the facts.

I think the media coverage of the debate has really made Obama's performance out to be worse than it was. Sure, he didn't perform well. But that was mainly due to his poor opening and miserable closing statements. He did alright in between, though he missed some golden opportunities to call out Romney for position reversals and distortions. Unfortunately, I think the media can often have a stronger effect on the public than the actual candidates' words.'

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 11:16:34 AM
So which Mitt Romney is the liar? They both can't be telling the truth. He's a bigger flip-flopper than Kerry. What is it with the Massachusetts boys and their inability to tell the truth?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10226 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:58:07 AM
I am trying to show that these types of statistics are silly as they are not accurate portrayals of the economic state.


Ah, okay then. Of course and I actaully gave a similar response to those stats.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:42:55 AM
For instance, here is one that I've seen:

AVERAGE HOURLY EARNINGS
Worst point 2009: $22.03
Today: $23.58
Source: tinyurl.com/9tu5d8r

However, using the same data, if the current month were November, 2008, I could do this:

AVERAGE HOURLY EARNINGS
Worst point 2006: $20.06
Today: $21.93
Source: tinyurl.com/9tu5d8r

You'll see that Obama's increase is roughly 7.04%. However, the Bush increase is 9.3%. Therefore, if this stat is going to be used as evidence that Obama is making good economic choices, then logic dictates that the same person MUST agree that Bush made better economic choices.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:38:55 AM
@Cajun247: I think you misunderstood me...

First off, I wasn't suggesting that the Bush administration was "good" for the economy. Also, I tried to carefully word my sentence to show that I was comparing a 25.8% increase over two terms (12.9%/term) to an estimated 11.5% increase over one term. Again, the reasoning was not to convince anyone that Bush was greater than Obama economically.

I have recently noticed someone posting a great many stats that pick an arbitrary point in time (usually "today") and making a comparison to a "worst point". This is being done as an attempt to show that the current administration is positively affecting the economy.

I am trying to show that these types of statistics are silly as they are not accurate portrayals of the economic state.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10226 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:27:53 AM
@HumanAction

Usually I agree with you but I'm afraid I'm gonna nitpick here. Bush achieved that growth over two terms. So for each term that goes to around 12.2% (square root of 1.258). A better example is if we look term by term. In 2005 NomGDP/Capita was $42.5K.

This means Bush had a growth of 21% in his first term followed by 7% in his second. So logically Bush did better than Obama in his first term. But then he wasted political capital on the wars rather than halting the housing bubble, then there was the bailouts.

cobrakiller
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 6934 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:12:19 AM
The biggest positive in the favor of Obama [at least in my view] is realism. Obama keeps speaking about "we" rough of a ride ahead of us, but we can get there. He then tells us how he plans to get there. Romney/Ryan [because lets face it, on this account they are interchangeable] keep giving this fairy tale about how "they" are going to fix everything without telling us how.

I was never a big fan of fairy tales.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:10:23 AM
The problem with the Obama plan is that it is a gamble with the US economy (and, by extension, the world economy). Obama's plan ASSUMES that it will be successful and that the costs (massive debt increases) will DEFINITELY be offset by the gains (modest economic improvement).

The problem I see is that we have had a truely massive increase in debt over the past several years yet only very modest economic improvements. Honestly, stats showing such gains or losses are meaningless over the course of several years since those are bounds within normal market fluctuation.

Consider this: George Bush raised the GDP per capita from 36k to 45.3k during his 8 years; this is a 25.8% increase over two terms. Obama over his single term has raised it from 45.3k to a generous estimate of 50.5k (2012 est); this is an 11.5% increase. By this logic, Bush was better for the economy than Obama.

madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6457 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:06:59 AM
Republicans rally behind the worst candidate in the history of candidates and the call democrats stupid.

inaria
Female, 18-29, Canada
 1521 Posts
Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:05:29 AM
Romney's BS is so blatant its as if he has no idea wtf he is doing. Oh wait, he doesn't. Ya'll need leaders educated in science, economics, simple math.

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