 broizfam
Male, 50-59, Eastern US
 824 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:39:44 PM
@HolyGod,
The last 2 lines of your excellent comment are especially important. There's a potential for what has been called the tyranny of democracy in which, by popular vote, anything could potentially be made illegal including any religion, fish on Friday, non-kosher food, movies, skirts...anything the majority of voters happen to frown upon at the moment. You said it so well it deserves repeating...
"Not everything should be voted on. The majority should never be allowed to vote to discriminate."
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 auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8769 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:27:05 PM
Agreed Holy. Well put. |
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 HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:21:41 AM
AuburnJunkey
"Not the same. Marriage is not a right, and Gay is not a race. "
Whoa. That isn't what you said. You said: "States rights matters should always be voted on by the citizenry." You had no equivocation.
OK. Gay isn't a race. But it isn't a choice either (in my opinion). However we don't discriminate in America based on religion and that certainly is a choice.
So would you be OK with Alabama putting an initiative on the ballot that made it so Muslims couldn't own businesses?
That may be hyperbolic but the point is not everything should be voted on. The majority should never be allowed to vote to discriminate.
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 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5329 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:22:58 AM
why is it only "fair" when your views trump mine?
I'm sure people like you said that when women wanted the vote. Traditionally only men could vote, so why change the definition of "voter" to something people like you don't agree with? |
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 McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
10540 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:13:34 AM
Dropped the ball there shoud've been this....
These people want you to vote Obama or die...
When would you ever listen to these people! |
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papajon0s1
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
236 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:05:27 AM
Nothing changed? Tax revenues did. But, you know, whatever... why is it only "fair" when your views trump mine? |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5329 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 7:06:32 AM
I remember the day that gay marriage became legal here. So much changed...wait, nothing changed except gay people can get married. Moving on. |
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 sparki1980
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
300 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 7:00:15 AM
Effect of this ad varies depending on demographic of the community it is installed in. More often than not it should fail... as it is definitely a hate oriented ad. |
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 Tiredofnicks
Male, 30-39, Europe
3995 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:29:40 AM
Preaching for the choir. |
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auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8769 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:13:03 AM
I never said it was a choice, but it isn't a race either.
(Devil's advocate glasses still on. Don't freak out people! lol) |
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 Vexys
Male, 18-29, Europe
73 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 6:06:46 AM
"Not the same. Marriage is not a right, and Gay is not a race."
So by by that implication you mean gay is a choice? or am I missing something, not saying you were implicating, I just think you need to better explain that one |
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irunfast86
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
192 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:06:36 AM
littlemissqt
Do you seriously think most people support gay marriage and abortion? Pull your head out of the sand. The internets would have you believe we are all democrats because apparently that's "cool". I'm all for gay marriage. and abortion should be allowed in rape and health cases IMO. However my in-laws would argue with me until they are blue in the face because they are "all in republicans". We're all allowed to have our own opinions.
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auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8769 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:56:19 AM
"So in the 60s if states would have gotten to vote on de-segregation in the south you think they should have been able to?"
(Puts on devil's advocate glasses, because you obviously want this debate lol)
Not the same. Marriage is not a right, and Gay is not a race.
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Bakcagain21
Male, 18-29, Europe
289 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:15:42 AM
@littlemissqt This is what I don't get about Liberals the inate belief that their views are correct and everyone must agree with them. Don't get me wrong I agree with abortion and have my views on gay marriage (make marriage a purely separate religious institution and the state only does civil partnerships for hetero and homo couples)That won't be in Cali it will be in a state where majority are anti abortion and gay marriage... |
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 tsiemens
Male, 30-39, Canada
438 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:04:19 AM
That might be an effective sign to win votes in the bible belt.... just sayin' |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:54:10 AM
AuburnJunky
"States rights matters should always be voted on by the citizenry."
So in the 60s if states would have gotten to vote on de-segregation in the south you think they should have been able to? |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:52:02 AM
markust123
"Because civil rights should never be voted on."
I wouldn't call marriage a "right". Maybe focus more on civil "equality". But I absolutely agree with you.
I'm pretty sure if they had de-segregation or mixed race marriage on the ballot in mississippi in the 60s they would have failed. Being in the majority DOES not make you right.
That is why we are a constitutional republic with representative democracy and NOT a pure democracy. Specifically because the founding fathers knew how wrong the majority could be. |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:47:55 AM
AUburnJunky
"31 times Gay Marriage has been on the ballot in a state, and 31 times it has failed. Whyyyyyyy?
Because the majority of people in each of those states do not approve of it. Easy peasey, Japanesey."
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I'm going to tell you right now and I bet you even agree.
A ballot proposition does NOT mean what "the majority of people in each of those states" think. It means what the majority of people in that state that are VOTING think. Who turns out in greatest percentages to vote, especially during non-residential voting years? Older people. Which group is least accepting of gay marriage? Older people.
If 95% of people in a state support gay marriage but the ones that vote on the issue is the other 5% it really doesn't matter what most people think.
Most people support gay marriage no matter what happens on ballots. |
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 markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:38:59 AM
"31 times Gay Marriage has been on the ballot in a state, and 31 times it has failed. Whyyyyyyy?"
Because civil rights should never be voted on. But even so, just wait. Washington state will pass it with a vote this November. |
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 Selous
Male, 30-39, Australia
1205 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 1:15:56 AM
to choose you government on this issue? im pretty sure america has many more pressing issues than gay marrage ... |
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 ferdyfred
Male, 40-49, Europe
5922 Posts
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Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:51:03 AM
elkingo
nail - head
everyone should have the same quality of life
it is the 21st century
Well done sir very well put |
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auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8769 Posts
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Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:46:46 PM
States rights matters should always be voted on by the citizenry.
That being said, an activist judge will almost always over-rule the citizens, so you're right. It doesn't matter anymore. |
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 VirtualParty
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
794 Posts
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Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:42:24 PM
Auburn, Isn't it voted on by representatives and not actual citizens? So three dots in a triangular pattern, no one really has any say any more in America republican or otherwise. |
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auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8769 Posts
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Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:54:34 PM
Okay Cajun. I am gonna fall for the trap....
31 times Gay Marriage has been on the ballot in a state, and 31 times it has failed. Whyyyyyyy?
Because the majority of people in each of those states do not approve of it. Easy peasey, Japanesey.
Now. I await your rebuttal of how the remaining 19 all unanimously support it, so I am technically wrong.
Before you go down that road, keep in mind, it has never been up for vote in Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, or many other red states.
All that being said, I support a gay persons right to join legally with their chosen spouse. |
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 OldOllie
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
8945 Posts
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Tuesday, October 02, 2012 8:15:52 PM
Like it or not, that fact is, this is the majority opinion in the US today. |
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