 FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
 2858 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 3:42:39 PM
CJ: What about someone's grandmother? Maybe she lives alone and doesn't have contact with her family, and she doesn't drive anymore. She's always been a voter, but this fall she shows up at the polls to cast her vote, but she's told that she can't because she doesn't have an ID.
Is that right? It's not like having to get insurance and a driver's license so you can drive. This is one of our basic rights. |
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 markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 3:17:05 PM
How about that for bad timing QueenZira? That is so funny. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 3:13:35 PM
"And for your last comment only conservatives are pulling the race card on this one. Blacks, the elderly, the poor and students are all affected by the new voter laws."
I have to correct myself on this. Both sides are pulling the race card. I have heard lots of Jim Crowe comments. Probably made a few myself. Haven't seen any in this thread though. |
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 QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
1763 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 3:12:08 PM
This is why we need a new Voting Rights Act, so skeevy Rep dirty tricks don't erode our democracy.
So no more just barely work arounds on the "No Poll Tax" law from Jim Crow days gets pushed through, no more special targeting of latino and black voters, and no more just barely work arounds on the "No Literacy Tests" law from Jim Crow days for everyone else. Every single study on "voter fraud" comes back with the same predictable results, it's a solution looking for a problem and the stuff that does happen is infinitesimally small.
Just the other day some NC based voter suppression group claimed 30,000 people on the rolls were dead and needed to be removed. The state took action and mailed every one of these "dead", all are still very much alive.
Demographics don't portend a bright future for Reps and they know it, but stupid s#it like this isn't going to help them. Come 2016 at the most it's effectively over. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:57:46 PM
I dont know why I am even answering you CrakrJak, you'll just move the goal post for whatever I will say. Voting is a right. You can not rush a law through that will block people from voting initially. This can be done over a long period of time but it can not be rushed because people will be blocked from voting. Pennsylvania could not prove that there was any voter fraud so what is the rush? My state votes completely by mail. None of us show ID. And your example of voter fraud is registry fraud. Where are the examples of actual voters committing fraud? It is not worth the federal crime for one vote. And for your last comment only conservatives are pulling the race card on this one. Blacks, the elderly, the poor and students are all affected by the new voter laws. |
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 Harlekk
Male, 18-29, Western US
16 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:55:32 PM
Getting a picture ID is not difficult, or expensive. I am a poor black college student who does not have a driver's license, and yet I have a photo ID. It cost me 5 dollars. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:50:49 PM
The best example I can give is from the NPR talk FoolsPrussia linked. A woman's mother moved to her state. The mother was black so she was not allowed to be born at the hospital. She was born at home so she did not have a birth certificate. To get the voter ID this daughter had to pay all sorts of fees to prove that her mom was who she was and she had to purchase the birth certificate. That was even before going through the hassle of getting the voter ID. Someone who is dirt poor who does not have the resources this daughter had to help her mom would not be able to get the new ID and would be blocked from voting, and that my friends is voter disenfranchisement. |
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:48:32 PM
markust: Sure it's a right US Citizens have. But not non-citizens, persons under 18yrs. of age, dead people, pets, cartoon characters or people that don't exist at all. You also don't get to vote twice, or three or four or other multiple times.
I have no problem with ID requirements. IDs are necessary for damn near everything these days. I do believe that State IDs should be free or very low cost for those of limited means.
The racism charge against voter ID laws is BS, we are over 40 years removed from Jim Crow, it's time the integrity of our elections be the priority. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:31:15 PM
Voting is a right not a privilege 5Cats. What were you saying about dumb as a rock? |
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 CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
2993 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:17:48 PM
i love her  |
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QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
1763 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:03:29 PM
Props to Sarah for telling it like it is in her usual punchy, sweet and sour with a spicy aftertaste manner!
I've been musing on creating some T-Shirts for this thing all year:
"Scare a Republican....VOTE." |
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 5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
16939 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:01:45 PM
So: Sarah thinks it's OK to require ID to buy a bottle of beer, BUT NOT OK to require it to vote?
I know, lets make voter fraud perfectly LEGAL! That solves the problem 100%!
She's really pretty, on the outside, but dumb as a rock on the inside... |
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FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2858 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 1:08:46 PM
So what you're saying is people that live in a 'very rural area' or are working two jobs are driving illegally?
I suppose you typed this before you noticed that I corrected that in my post. It was an error my me to phrase it that way. |
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 onoffonoffon
Male, 30-39, Western US
1245 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 12:43:27 PM
Someday she might be more funny. Anyways, neither of the 2 main candidates deserve or should be president. They are both sides of the same coin really. Until the electoral college is abolished voting won't matter. |
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 ForSquirel
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
994 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 12:15:06 PM
firearm permit? I'm confused? |
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 Squidbush
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
496 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 11:56:12 AM
So what you're saying is people that live in a 'very rural area' or are working two jobs are driving illegally?
It's not like public transportation gets better outside of cities in the US. It gets MUCH worse. |
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FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2858 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 11:15:02 AM
Imagine living in a very rural area. It could mean having to travel quite a distance to get to a DMV in order to get your ID card. Not everyone has a checking account. There are people who work for cash.
And, government budget cuts have reduced the number of DMVs in many states, meaning your local DMV might have been shut down. That's extra travel time for people who don't have the money or time to purchase a bus ticket. Or, they may work more than one job to support their family and don't have the time to get an ID card. The law mandates employers to give time off for voting, but it doesn't mandate time off to go and get a photo ID card.
Not everyone lives under the same circumstances as you. |
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 madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
6406 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:46:05 AM
The people who just say "get an ID" seem to forget the process of becoming registered to vote and voting itself. In the states I've lived in, voter registration is tied to your name, address, phone and social security numbers and you can't vote anyplace but your precinct.
Then if you were to pretend to be someone else you'd risk jail time to provide 1 vote for your candidate when in fact there's a 50 / 50 chance the candidate would have been the one the registered voter would have voted for.
It's just not logical and the only reason voter ID laws are in effect anywhere is because republicans are sore losers. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:46:01 AM
"If you really want to understand the issue, I think it would be good to listen to this NPR discussion: LINK"
That was a really good discussion FoolsPrussia. Intelligent, both sides were represented, and the person that was for stricter Voter ID laws got the last word. |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:26:08 AM
"My main problem with this debate is it being labeled racist."
What are you talking about? This affects black people, the elderly, the poor and students. The only people pulling the race card are conservatives. But it is the Joker (the race bait card). |
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FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2858 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:24:28 AM
'Pres. Obama is trying to ban overseas soldiers from being able to vote'
False. LINK |
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markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
3783 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:23:09 AM
"Of course voter fraud exsists. Madison county, Miss, has 123% more registered voters than people over 18; 6000 dead people are registered to vote in Dallas County, Texas; ACORN was caught registering dead people to vote in 2008; and New York has 77 million dead still registered to vote, with over 2000 of them having voted after death, just to name a few."
None of these affect the actual vote. Show the list of actual voter fraud. You know where people actually voting committed fraud. |
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FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2858 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:22:25 AM
If you really want to understand the issue, I think it would be good to listen to this NPR discussion: LINK |
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Denogginizer
Male, 30-39, Western US
118 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:19:32 AM
Of course voter fraud exsists. Madison county, Miss, has 123% more registered voters than people over 18; 6000 dead people are registered to vote in Dallas County, Texas; ACORN was caught registering dead people to vote in 2008; and New York has 77 million dead still registered to vote, with over 2000 of them having voted after death, just to name a few.
On a side note, Pres. Obama is trying to ban overseas soldiers from being able to vote. I bet they all have ID's. |
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FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2858 Posts
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Friday, September 21, 2012 10:08:43 AM
'Zero things are stopping people from getting a free ID'
Here's what I don't understand. You're a libertarian, right? Doesn't the idea of making someone go through additional hoops just to participate in something that is their constitutionally mandated right go against your entire philosophy about government overreach? |
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