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My Illegal Abortion

Hits: 9921 | Rating: (2.8) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: DrProfessor
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
feverdream
Female, 18-29, Canada
 106 Posts
Saturday, September 01, 2012 1:32:42 AM
in the early 80s my aunt had an abortion. they didnt anesthetize or sedate her whatsoever. she said it felt like the dr was using a serated spoon, the kind you use for grapefruits. the dr was later called barbaric by southern groups. i cannot imagine this happening this day and age.

DrProfessor
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 3884 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 2:16:03 PM
@5cats-That's the point. She's arguing against the pro-life movement by illustrating the kind of situations that arose from abortion being illegal. When you said "things are different now" I assumed that you meant "things are different now, if it were made illegal nowadays things like that would never happen."

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26636 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 1:51:59 PM
@SmagBoy: Seriously? Not one hospital, clinic or doctor in the USA, outside of Planned Parenthood, will perform an abortion? Seriously?

Why can a thing not acquire its intrinsic value after it begins to exist?

@patchy: That question? It's kinda difficult to figure out what you're asking there, eh?

Once it has it's own DNA, seperate from the mother = it's a baby IMO. That's after about 4 cell divisions, idk how many hours or days it takes.
So yes, at the 8 cell stage it really is "part of the mother's body" and not a baby at all. After that it's a seperate human being.

Soon enough we'll have "artificial wombs" and such! It won't end abortions but ought to cut down on them.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26636 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 1:37:48 PM
@fuzzysheep: I just think that "26 weeks" is an arbitrary number, any abortion after the first few cell divisions kills a baby, but isn't neccessarily "murder".

@5cats--What's so incomparable between now and 1967?

@DrProfessor: Um, abortions are not only legal now, the government PAYS FOR THEM? Single mothers are fully supported by 90% of society? It's 'night and day' different, was that a trick question?

We cannot go back to the "no abortion ever" days as that would be bad too! It's a difficult issue with no clear solutions.
However: pretending it's NOT killing a baby is just... vile. Admit what it is! Tell the truth!

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 12:30:20 PM
@listypoos: Oh, I see, nevermind then. I'd still like to hear a pro-lifer respond to my earlier question, too.

Listypoos
Male, 30-39, Europe
 2715 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 11:26:03 AM
@patchgrabber "@listypoos: Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. So 6-7 months minimum.""

I wasn't saying I didn't know... I was saying she should provide some evidence that they are fully conscious if she's going to make such a bold statement that they are with no proof whatsoever.

Seeing as even our best doctors and scientists aren't sure when consciousness starts... or even if it is post or pre-birth.... I just doubted she'd be able to find anything that wasn't just pro-life propaganda to back up her statement.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 11:02:52 AM
The far right summarized:


McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 10:56:31 AM
The far left summarized....


Not that the far right is any beter.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 10:56:02 AM
@McG: I don't think Condescending Wonka was the right choice for that.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 10:42:19 AM
@QueenZira


SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4243 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 10:11:01 AM
Actually, for those saying that abortion is legal, please note that 31 of 50 states have passed laws limiting access and funding to Planned Parenthood, which, along with abortions, provided contraception and women's health, and access to "legal" abortion. 31 of 50. In the last two years since the Tea Party swept in. With some states have no clinics and one state with only one single clinic--for the entire state--that will perform them. So, "legal"? Perhaps. Feasible and accessible? Less and less and less so. Essentially "no". So, let's not act like it is.

Source 1

Source 2

Etc.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5167 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 9:33:51 AM
QueenZira

I don't understand the point. Nobody is telling you what you can and can't do with your Vagina. But some do think you shouldn't be able to arbitrarily kill the life inside of you.

I'm pro choice up to conception. You have 100s of choices to keep from getting pregnant. Once you have made choices that lead to the pregnancy, I don't personally think that life should lose its life for your poor choices.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 9:10:52 AM
But more importantly-

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 9:06:48 AM
Mcgovern:


drawman61
Male, 50-59, Europe
 6273 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 8:50:33 AM
Or you could just practice safe sex and stop blaming the world for your dilemma.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 7:46:30 AM
@listypoos: Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. So 6-7 months minimum.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 7:41:08 AM
Aside from (3) being debatable, can a thing be intrinsically valuable and not have a right to life? It is morally wrong, so most of us think, to inflict wanton pain on sentient creatures like dogs, cats, chickens, and so on. If I come across a wild dog, for example, then it would be wrong for me to torture that dog for hours on end. It would be wrong even if nobody cared about the dog or even knew it existed. If so, then dogs deserve at least some level of value and respect independently of what anyone thinks about them. Dogs must therefore be intrinsically valuable; and this despite the fact that dogs do not have a right to life.

So something can be intrinsically valuable and not have a right to life, but my question is this: Why can a thing not come to be at one time and yet become intrinsically valuable to a particular degree at another time? Why can a thing not acquire its intrinsic value after it begins to exist?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5745 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 7:35:06 AM
@emmetyville: Your argument is question-begging. You say that it is human life from conception as if that's axiomatic. You then say that it has a "right to life." I've said this before in a similar argument with HG, but it deserves repeating.
You presuppose that the foetus has intrinsic value and thus has a right to life, basically:
(1) The foetus is identical with the being who is later rational and self-conscious.
(2) The being who is later rational and self-conscious is, at that later time, intrinsically valuable.
(3) If a thing is intrinsically valuable, then it is intrinsically valuable from the moment that it exists.
(4) So, the being who is later rational and self-conscious is intrinsically valuable from the moment that it exists. (from (2) and (3))
(5) Therefore, the foetus is intrinsically valuable from the moment that it exists. (from (1) and (4))

Bremir
Male, 18-29, Europe
 394 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 7:32:13 AM
AvatarJohn - The same way you should be hit by a bus for judging someone else?

Now that would be justice. One less piece of **** like you on the planet.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 6:51:22 AM
Required reading for those looking for insight into the minds of anti-choice hypocrites: The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion.

cheeseb
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 232 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 6:48:42 AM
I'm an advocate for a woman to have choice, but not on this woman's testimony. There are more valid reasons than irresponsibility for making abortion legal and safe.
Something bad did happen to this lady. She shouldn't be persecuted for it. But this story shouldn't be fodder for the pro-choice movement. Those who are pro-life have their reasons, some of them crazy, ridiculous, and equally irresponsible, that I do not agree with. But I do agree with them on one stance: abortion shouldn't be used simply as a means to escape unwanted consequences.

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13611 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 6:30:52 AM



Or do the guns now make it bad?

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 6116 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 6:27:15 AM
Amazing- those of you who condemn women like this and claim to be so pro-life yet have not one scrap of sense or empathy in your entire bodies. It must be the glow of self righteousness that fuals you. How sad is is mis-placed. If you object to abortion then I strongly suggest you have a reasonable argument, and show that you are capable of caring about suffering of both mother and child. So many love to scream at the incubator so wantonly chopping up the perfect little human inside- without taking time to realise that the situaion is hard for all concerned- and that no matter what stance you take there will be intense suffering....

AvatarJohn
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 1035 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 6:18:35 AM
So sorry her "experience" with murdering a child wasn't so clean, white, and sterile. It's so much nicer now that we can have a "doctor" perform the gruesome task of slicing up the baby in a safe, clinical setting and not have to think about it.

She should have bled to death -- that would have been justice.

Metalcraze
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 101 Posts
Friday, August 31, 2012 6:00:00 AM
That story happened in 1967.
Libetard fail.

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