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Can Companys MAKE You Campaign For Candidate?[Pic+

Hits: 11648 | Rating: (1.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: SmagBoy1
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 10221 Posts
Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:58:18 AM
I would not want belligerent volunteers on a campaign. It is easier to do harm to a campaign than good.

OutWest
Male, 50-59, Western US
 548 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 5:02:44 PM
I've never had a private employer ask me to campaign or support any politician. Usually politics, like religion is not typically discussed at work by management to employee.

This is a trojan horse to imply that private business is playing dirty pool. When in fact Unions come closer to the deep end of that pool than any employer I've ever worked for.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 3604 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 3:58:12 PM
And I don't have an agenda here, I'm genuinely asking! Also, I apologize for the misspelling of "companys" if, in fact, my submission was spelled that way (and I have a feeling it was)! And if so, dang, I'm ashamed.

SmagBoy1
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 3604 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 3:55:08 PM
Okay, I realize *this* case was about a union, but doesn't the question still stand. By the same logic covered here, couldn't a company (an independent entity with rights under Citizen's United) compel its employees to campaign for a candidate?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10114 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 12:25:45 PM
@HumanAction

That sums it up nicely. I'm employed at FedEx, it may not be explicitly called a contract, but me and FedEx have our own copy of the "agreement" between us.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2305 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:53:42 AM
Actually, I agree with you both @dang007, and @Cajun247.

Employment, to me, is contractual in nature regardless of a physical contract (there are verbal contracts afterall). However, without a clear and concise physical contract, employment is "at will."

That being said, even "at will" employment favors the employee. Afterall, and employee can quit (terminate the contract) for any reason while the employer cannot. Consider this: an employee can quit a job because the boss is black. However, an employer cannot fire someone (terminate the contract) because they are black.

What I'm getting at is that, at the end of the day, the employee has the ultimate power - they can leave for any reason. With this in mind, I cannot conceive (barring criminal action) how a business could force an employee to perform an action against their will.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10114 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:49:05 AM
Now you are just sh///tttn me right?


What do YOU think employment is?

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:37:07 AM
>>>But isn't employment a contractual relationship?<<<

Now you are just sh///tttn me right?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10114 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:34:53 AM
must they retain your employment if you refuse to perform a task.


But isn't employment a contractual relationship?

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:32:32 AM
@Cajun247 Again you miss my point.

If you have a contract then the company and you have the right to use the courts to compel the other party to do what is required by the contract. If there is NO contract a company can not compel you to work, nor can you prevent a company from requiring you to perform a given task as part of your job. Thus in the absence of a contract a company can not "force" you to do something, nor must they retain your employment if you refuse to perform a task.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10114 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:25:34 AM
No contract who is going to stop them.


Since when is one's obligation to a contract something outside of what's in it?

Zeegrr60
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1759 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:13:54 AM
Germany,1938 did the same thing.Welcome your new masters.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:08:11 AM
>>>hmm let's see, if it wasn't part of the description of the job when you were hired you cannot be made to do something outside of the job you were hired for that is completely unrelated to your job. <<<

No they can make you thanks for making my point and Human Actions point. You can always quit.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:06:57 AM
<<<<The word "legally" is just you splitting hairs now. Whether legal or not, the argument was whether they CAN.>>>>

And I can call a can of beans caviar it doesn't make it so. Can a company build a privet army, break the law and send you to their private brain washing camp. Well I guess they could, but then I guess we were talking about a decision of a governmental board, not hypothetical questions such as whether the aliens want our brains or our water.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:03:51 AM
>>>Actually no they can't. They'd have to show how you were failing to meet standards laid out in the contract. Now if the contract said "the company reserves the right terminate our contractual relationship at any time for any reason" then it wouldn't be outside of the contract.<<<


Actually, yes they can. No contract who is going to stop them.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2305 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 11:01:59 AM
@patchgrabber: however that would be a more philosophical debate on what constitutes force, and how it is applied

I can agree with that notion, as we likely do not agree on the definition of 'force' or what constitutes 'force' in this case.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5597 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:58:49 AM
@HA: My initial agreement was that they cannot force you to stay employed, but then the argument was shifted to whether a corporation can force you to do "something" as you put it. I would still maintain that *current* usage of PMCs by NGOs includes use of force in other countries under the ostensible role of "security." But if you want to maintain that in the US a company cannot force you to do something, I would still debate that, however that would be a more philosophical debate on what constitutes force, and how it is applied. I don't really have the time today for any more debating, so I will just say that companies are, at least in the US, as you suggest, not necessarily able to physically force you to do something against your will.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2305 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:58:43 AM
@jamie76: Anwar al-Awlaki

I see you've done your homework. NEXT.

jamie76
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2282 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:56:19 AM
HumanAction

and you are talking about what exactly?

oh that's right you are just making crap up.

NEXT

jamie76
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2282 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:55:39 AM
GOP

the party of forced labor.

only a matter of time before they stopped the pretense and admitted to being the right wing facist we have always known them to be.

first, they ruled companies are PEOPLE (WTF???) and now they ruled those people can force you to do their bidding even if it is unrelated to your job.

this of course won't stand for long, the GOP is pretty much done at this point.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2305 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:54:30 AM
@jamie76: when a party resorts to FORCING their employees to work for a political candidate against their will or get fired there is NO WAY anyone with a brain can support such a fanatical and rights abusing party

When a president resorts to using military assets to assassinate a US citizen, then there is NO WAY any person with reasonable intelligence can support him; it is such a blatant abuse of rights.

See, we can all do it.

jamie76
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2282 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:50:43 AM
hmm let's see, if it wasn't part of the description of the job when you were hired you cannot be made to do something outside of the job you were hired for that is completely unrelated to your job.

this election comittie is NOT a court of law and I promise you when this hits a real court the lawsuit will be big, nasty and not go the GOPs way.

btw, how many of you still want to be part of the GOP...I mean really, when a party resorts to FORCING their employees to work for a political candidate against their will or get fired there is NO WAY anyone with a brain can support such a fanatical and rights abusing party.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2305 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:34:07 AM
@patchgrabber: You say that it is impossible for a company to force you to do something, you didn't specify that in our time it's impossible.

Is that really going to be the argument you use? I'm very certain that everyone here understands that we are speaking about the current environment.

Afterall, is in not scientific to make assessments based on the scope of your inquiry? This article is "current" and was not written during the timeframe you reference.

What's amazing me is that you actually agreed with me to begin with, and are now arguing with me. You admitted that in the strict sense of the word, a company cannot force you because you can leave. Based on this, it is fair to assess that the employee makes a choice to stay because the pros are better than the cons. Hence, they are not forced. This does not imply that they were not coerced.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10114 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 10:06:10 AM
On the other hand, most companies would hurt their own PR if they did exercise this right. While their newest members may not be fortunate their senior members wouldn't be hard pressed to find a job elsewhere.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10114 Posts
Monday, August 27, 2012 9:59:19 AM
Companies have one recourse if you do not do what they want, outside a contract, fire you.


Actually no they can't. They'd have to show how you were failing to meet standards laid out in the contract. Now if the contract said "the company reserves the right terminate our contractual relationship at any time for any reason" then it wouldn't be outside of the contract.

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