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US Debt Visualized: Updated

Hits: 8598 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: 5Cats
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
photomstr
Male, 50-59, Canada
 767 Posts
Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:12:46 AM
I think it is wise and clever that 'merca chooses to consume the cheap foreign oil first. Once it is all gone the arabs can go back to stealing each other's wives and goats.

photomstr
Male, 50-59, Canada
 767 Posts
Thursday, August 16, 2012 6:09:10 AM
I am sorry . . . you 'mercans are so screwed . . .

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:31:14 PM
5Cats

...continued

I'd happily vote for a Republican as long as they left the religion at home and were intelligent and articulate. I like the republican platform (minus the "morality" police and environmental neglect). We just haven't had anyone actually lead by it in a long time.

I get pissed off when republicans run on fiscal responsibility and then jack up the debt without reprisals, but as soon as a democrat does it the people that were silent a couple years ago lose their mind. (Tea Party)

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:30:37 PM
5Cats

"Well @HG and @markust: THEN you have to extrapolate Obama's debt up to the NEXT fiscal year-end"

I'm perfectly fine with that. Totally. As long as you say "By the end of Obama's fiscal leadership the national debt will be...." I'm cool. It will be a metric s.hit ton of cash. I could sit on here and b.itch about what obama has done all day. But I get caught up having to correct right wing spin the whole time. You probably think I'm partisan as hell, but I'm not. I disagree with a lot of what Obama has done.


5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25766 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 8:01:47 PM
Imagining that it will help LOWER the debt by INCREASING it FASTER than ever is delusional...

Debt To The Penny look and learn.

"Well, it's more important to "win" as a political party then to "fix" something as a political party."
Well said @HalfPintRoo! That's the truth of the matter.
"Angilion- From the television, we're told we have enough of our own oil for many years!!!!"
Y'all do, it's true! BUT it's more expensive overall, so it makes less profits for the Oil Companies to do so. And like @HG said: use "their" oil while it's cheap, then "our oil" when it's worth a lot more!

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25766 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 7:55:11 PM
The CBO attributes the first fiscal year of a new president's term to the previous president.

Well @HG and @markust: THEN you have to extrapolate Obama's debt up to the NEXT fiscal year-end at the current rate of spending too! You cannot simply say TODAY'S DEBT is the extent of Obama's spending, OK? GET IT? You guys clearly are NOT doing that, yet lecture me about "having it both ways" eh? Hummmm....
FYI: It makes Obama's debt WORSE not better, I've run the numbers twice before and am not interested in doing it again.
Also: you simply CANNOT tack Obama's stimulus onto Bush's debt, period, full stop!

""racked up over 10+ years" you are clearly delusional..." - @tedgp

What is wrong with that? - @HG


I'll tell you what's wrong: Obama's answer to debt crisis? MORE DEFICIT! Each and every deficit Obama has had is HIGHER than Bush's.

bmartin1134
Male, 18-29, Western US
 3 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 4:27:05 PM
The icon for this post made me think that the US debt was going to be visualized in an entirely different way.



HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:59:54 PM
HalfPintRoo

"But we continue to rely on outside oil.
Beats me..."

The United States does have plenty of oil. But we rather use up everyone else's so we are the last ones standing. Especially since we can get it so cheap. Oil tends to be in poor countries.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:57:59 PM
Angilion

"Ah, wait. Oil. So I'm guessing it's not possible any more."

The Energy Information Administration estimates United States technically recoverable oil reserves to be 198 billion barrels.

The United States consumes 7 billion barrels annually. We have 28 years covered. Not to mention the trillion barrels in shale. Plus I'd like to think we won't be consuming gas on this scale in 25 years.

The reason the U.S. can't is because nothing is made here. From Mcdonalds toys to iPads and basically every item in a wallmart, without trade we have no way of making products.

HalfPintRoo
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2475 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:50:41 PM
Angilion- From the television, we're told we have enough of our own oil for many years!!!!!!!!

But we continue to rely on outside oil.

Beats me...

HalfPintRoo
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2475 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:47:51 PM
Well, it's more important to "win" as a political party then to "fix" something as a political party. Duh. Debt doesn't matter- it's just there to give political parties something to campaign about.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:24:32 PM
Pretend countries are companies. Imagine loaning money to a company that is responsible for 20% of your business. If you don't loan them money they go under and 20% of your business disappears. Not to mention all the other businesses that you do business with rely on that company as well.


I can give a real world example on a much smaller scale. Eire was in the poo in a big way a couple of years back. The UK bailed them out with a loan for exactly the reason you refer to. Eire doesn't buy 20% of UK exports, but it does buy a non-trivial amount.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:20:01 PM
Hmm...a question has arisen in my mind from mt last post.

Could the USA suddenly switch to being *entirely* self-supporting? So if the USA did rip up all its debts and say "to hell with you, we're never going to pay any of it", could it handle the sudden cessation of outside trade when everyone cuts off all trade with the USA in response?

I'm not suggesting it would happen. It's just curiousity.

Ah, wait. Oil. So I'm guessing it's not possible any more.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:15:50 PM
As far as I know, the USA owes the UK a quarter of a trillion dollars. Do we care? No. USA government bonds are solid. The debt can be shuffled around with the rest of the pretend money in the world's economies (and it's all pretend money).

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:12:44 PM
Cut off as usual...

2c) China conquers the USA as a form of repossession. Which they can't do and it would be more expensive than the debt even if they could.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11513 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 3:11:20 PM
My question is... where does it end? - I'm not into all this stuff so this is a genuine question. When will China/ the world say "enough is enough"?


Probably never. The circumstances would have to be implausibly extreme to make it possible.

Option 1: Carry on as it is. The USA can service its debts. It's not bankrupt. So its debts to China et alia are still worth something to China et alia.

Option 2: Demand the money back right now. There is absolutely no chance of getting it because the USA doesn't have enough spare money to repay it all in one go. So there are three possible outcomes from this option:

2a) The USA goes bankrupt. None of its creditors get any money anyway and the economy of most of the countries in the world collapses, *including those that the USA owes money to*.

2b) The USA says "No" and rips up the debt. Same outcome as a, probably.

2c) China conquers the USA as a

McGovern1981
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 13456 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:57:42 PM
Imagine what could've been built with all the money we were forced to give banks and such for not doing their jobs right.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:43:59 PM
Beternal

"My question is... where does it end? - I'm not into all this stuff so this is a genuine question. When will China/ the world say "enough is enough"? "

Never. The answer is never. Pretend countries are companies. Imagine loaning money to a company that is responsible for 20% of your business. If you don't loan them money they go under and 20% of your business disappears. Not to mention all the other businesses that you do business with rely on that company as well.

China can't allow the American economy to falter. It would take down the entire world economy.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:40:42 PM
"It has gone up $15T in 20 years. $5T with Democrat budgets and $10T with Republican budgets. "

By the way I want to be completely fair. Republicans had 5 terms vs Democrats not even having 3 full ones yet. So that is responsible for some of the inequality.

beternal
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2388 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:38:24 PM
Ok, so all the Americans here are saying yes Americans owe huge amounts to China... but that they'll never collect.

My question is... where does it end? - I'm not into all this stuff so this is a genuine question. When will China/ the world say "enough is enough"?

...because 'debt' doesn't really mean anything if you can take but never pay back!

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:36:48 PM
5Cats

"not me though! I'm a Canadian!"

You know we don't actually believe that right? ;)

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:34:54 PM
5Cats

Where you been this whole time? When I saw this post I figured we'd be on our 8th volley by lunch.

""racked up over 10+ years" you are clearly delusional..."

What is wrong with that? The deficit was around $1T when Reagan took office. He added $2T. Bush 1 added $1T. Clinton added $1.5T. Bush 2 added $7T. Obama has added $3.5T. It has been a group effort. Take inflation into account. Your hero Reagan adding $2T in 80s money is just as bad as what Obama has done so far. It has been a group effort. It has gone up $15T in 20 years. $5T with Democrat budgets and $10T with Republican budgets.

Explain to me again about how the Republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility?

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:34:34 PM
"So if Romney beats Obama and takes office in 2013 and Obama's 2013 budget increases the deficit by $5 Trillion then you are going to rant on here about Romney increasing the deficit $5 Trillion? Come on."

Absolutely not. That will be Obama's fault. But if Obama's 2013 budget decreases the debt you can be sure 5Cats will attribute that first year to Romney. Sorry 5Cats, you can't have it both ways. The CBO attributes the first fiscal year of a new president's term to the previous president.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5028 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:21:30 PM
5Cats

"@HolyGod: Obama's debt going OUT (Jan 20 2013) minus his debt comming IN (Jan 20 2009) equals HIS share of the debt, period.
Anything else is faked accounting, ok?"

Seriously? So a president is responsible for the deficit for the first year in office when the previous administration is the one that set the budget and there is nothing he can do about it? How in the hell is that fair?

So if Romney beats Obama and takes office in 2013 and Obama's 2013 budget increases the deficit by $5 Trillion then you are going to rant on here about Romney increasing the deficit $5 Trillion? Come on....

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 25766 Posts
Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:09:39 PM
oh wait, its popular to pin all blame on obama now right?

Oh no @tedgp! Lets "Blame Bush tm" for another decade or so...

Cool graphics.

Thanks @HolyGod! This sort of thing's been posted before at IAB, but the last one: "unfunded liabilities" is what's REALLY the problem! And absolutely true: BOTH PARTIES are equally to blame for that!All that promised spending has to be paid for by someone... not me though! I'm a Canadian!

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