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Stockton, California Goes Bankrupt. Who's Next?

Hits: 6570 | Rating: (2.4) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: wizemuler
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4746 Posts
Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:16:49 PM
HolyGod-"It is a completely different technology."

Okay, it's a different technology, the end result is still a family sedan, not a 2-seat sports car.

HolyGod-" Early adopters are paying for the R&D."

I WISH that is what's happening, because for every one sold, it's costing US TAXPAYERS Hundreds of thousands of dollars. If it was a PRIVATE venture I wouldn't have any problem with it.

HolyGod-"If I drive a volt it will cost me $0."

You get your electricity for free? Actually, you'll be paying about $550-600 per year. MUCH LESS than a gas car, granted, but it would take you about 13 years to make up the difference. Seeing as the battery only has an EIGHT year warranty, and a TEN year life expectancy....you do the math.

HolyGod-"technology that will improve and become more available"

I hope it will, it's just not there yet.

ilfg
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 338 Posts
Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:04:12 AM
Well, if I ever need a place to squat, I know where I'll go.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5093 Posts
Thursday, August 09, 2012 9:41:04 AM
MeGrendel

It is a completely different technology. Different technologies almost always cost a premium when they come out. Early adopters are paying for the R&D. In 5 years the price will probably be much closer to the Carolla.

The prius plug in starts at $32,000 and only has an 11 mile full electric range. The volt can go 35 miles.

Back to the carolla / volt comparison. If I drive a carolla to work every day and I work 30 miles away I'll spend about $2,000 on gas getting to and from work in a year. If I drive a volt it will cost me $0. Add in additional short range driving and it doesn't take long for the volt to cost less in the long run.

Also keep in mind that a volt owner gets a $7,500 tax credit. That takes the SRP effectively down to $31,500.

I just think it is short sighted to call it a failure. Hopefully it is the start of a technology that will improve and become more available.


MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4746 Posts
Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:44:48 AM
HolyGod-"That is MORE of a price difference than between the Volt and Corvette."

THAT'S THE PROBLEM. You're paying SPORTS CAR PRICE for something that's basically a low-end family sedan.

You're attempting to compare this:

To THIS:


When the actually class is closer to THIS:


OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14782 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:04:37 PM
Every single comment I have ever seen you post is some finger-pointing whine riddled bullsh*t.

Let's see...finger-pointing? Absolutely. Whining? No way. Bullsh*t? Prove it!

All humor is based on the misfortune of others -- from something as simple as someone slipping on a banana peel to some poor SOB standing on a 40th floor window ledge in the dead of winter stark naked with a raging stiffy.

In real life we hesitate to laugh at others' misfortune except when it's not truly injurious or life-threatening, or when their misfortune is the result of their own folly. This is the case here. These liberals have fouled their nest, and now they want someone else to clean up their mess. I rather enjoy watching them wallow in their self-made misery as long as it doesn't affect me. However, when the feds are pissing away MY money on stupid crap like "green energy" and "global warming" I tend to get a bit testy.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5093 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:51:36 PM
Megrendel

"So, you're happy that a $32,000 sedan outsold a $80,000 (on average) sports car?"

Again you are distorting the facts to suit your argument. The Volt starts at $40,000 the Corvette starts at $50,000. So you say there is a $48,000 price difference when in reality it is only $10,000. It isn't that hard to check your facts.

"Why not campare it to a similar type car, say the Toyota Camry"

So you are comparing a premium priced car that is new and electric to a staple economy car that has been around for 30 years and has a base price $18,000 less? That is MORE of a price difference than between the Volt and Corvette.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:58:26 PM
@markust123: The biggest blame for the slow sales of electric cars is partisan right opinion media.

Would you be so kind as to tell me which alternative energy source is your preferred replacement? I'd love to hear your esteemed input on the matter.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:29:12 PM
the challenges faced by the auto industry now vis-a-vis gasoline to alternative is roughly comparable to the switch from leaded to unleaded gasoline.


You must be kidding. How can you compare going from petroleum-based to petroleum-based, and going from peroleum-based to coal-based (electricity)? These are nowhere near the same things - as in, they are completely different. Switching from leaded to unleaded is a much smaller engineering change than switching to electric (or hybrid).

The issue with electric cars still remains twofold: first, we do not have alternative sources with nearly the same energy density as petroleum/coal (unless we start making more nuclear plants); second, we need to find a better means to store energy - current storage technologies are insufficient.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4746 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:56:04 PM
Why not campare it to a similar type car, say the Toyota Camry...which only outsold the Volt 24 to 1.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4746 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:48:07 PM
patchgrabber-" We get it, you don't like electric cars."

Actually, I've never stated that. Have, in fact, stated the opposite in the past. I'd love the idea a car with fewer moving part and pooloads of torque. I just want it to go more than 40 miles and take less than 8 hours to recharge. (and should be better for the environment...current ones are not).

markust123-"biggest blame for the slow sales of electric cars is partisan right opinion media."

Actually, I think it has to do more with the fact that electric cars are expensive, small, take too long to recharge, don't go very far and, overall, are not really viable means of transportation (yet).

HolyGod-"However it outsells the Corvette right now."

So, you're happy that a $32,000 sedan outsold a $80,000 (on average) sports car? I'm pretty sure it outsold the Ferrari, too. Why not campare it to a similar type car, say the Toyota Camry...which only outsold t

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 11:14:53 AM
The auto industry survived, it's not the frail child you make it out to be.


Courtesy of FOREIGN car makers, yes. Not GM.

markust-That's 2 cases of Ad Hominem right there.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5093 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 10:28:40 AM
MeGrendel

It is the first full year of production on a newish technology. Different things take time for the public to accept. The prius didn't fly out of the showrooms when it was first released, but it is pretty successful now. The Volt is expensive and most people can't afford it. However it outsells the Corvette right now. Does that mean you think the Corvette is not successful? Americans are spoiled with cheap gasoline. If gas went up to $7 a gallon you'd see a huge spike in Volt sales.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3784 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:06:16 AM
"@MeGrendel: We get it, you don't like electric cars."

It's deeper than that. My dad has the same exact stance. I mean exactly. This time it is a case of MeGrendel just being a Fox News parrot. Or whatever far right entity is brainwashing him. The biggest blame for the slow sales of electric cars is partisan right opinion media. All you have to do on this one is follow the money; it leads right to the oil and coal industries.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 8:41:36 AM

States cannot file bankruptcy.
So is the next big bailout California?

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 8:40:13 AM

Largest city to go bankrupt? Didn't New York City file in the 70s?

San Diego is next? They did all the same things.
Didn't pay the employee pension fund.
Dozens of dozens of bond measures.
Lied or omitted things on the published budget reports.
Massive unfunded building projects, or funded through bond measures.

They use a couple of outrageously high pensions to justify
cutting all pensions. But they should stop making the bank
payments before they stop paying pensions.

The politicians who did this have all moved on to other gigs as State Representatives and county commissioner jobs.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12572 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 8:03:02 AM
It isn't just municipalities. There's a whole lot of government and business creaking under the strain of this style of pension fund.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5726 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:56:49 AM
@MeGrendel: We get it, you don't like electric cars. Wall Street housing crash aside, the challenges faced by the auto industry now vis-a-vis gasoline to alternative is roughly comparable to the switch from leaded to unleaded gasoline. The auto industry took a big hit from that one, and the government gave incentives on that too. The auto industry survived, it's not the frail child you make it out to be.

Dead_mind
Male, 18-29, Europe
 281 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 6:18:11 AM
@freddyferret
Like all the other "United" poo. We bring whatever cash this piece of land can bring in, and in dark time we cut it loose!

vjkl9f0asdf
Female, 50-59, Southern US
 14 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:00:28 AM
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accept the paypal

Air jordan(1-24)shoes $33

Nike shox(R4,NZ,OZ,TL1,TL 2,TL3) $35

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Jean(True Religion,ed hardy,coogi) $30

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New era cap $15

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IrishJesus
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 484 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:46:30 AM
OldOllie: I come here almost daily, but don't make a lot of comments. However, I do spend time reading what people have to say on these forums. Your incessant liberal bashing aside, you are a terribly negative person. Seriously, what DOESN't get your greasy panties in a bunch?? Every single comment I have ever seen you post is some finger-pointing whine riddled bullsh*t.

Feel free to reply to this with another toddler hissy fit. It's what I've come to expect of you.

onoffonoffon
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2171 Posts
Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:51:29 PM
CA and FL are what's wrong with this country.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14782 Posts
Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:13:26 PM
These bankrupt cities ALL have one thing in common: they're ALL run by Democrats. And Obama is doing EXACTLY the same thing to the country.

freddyferret
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 11734 Posts
Tuesday, August 07, 2012 11:09:26 PM
We should just drop a few big bombs into the San Andreas fault and send California out into the Pacific. The entire state will be bankrupt in under 10 years.

MeGrendel
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 4746 Posts
Tuesday, August 07, 2012 9:37:08 PM
HolyGod-"It is the #1 selling electric car in the US"

Which puts it ranking as the 144th best selling car in the US. (And the 143 models in front of it are not costing taxpayers in excess of $200,000 per car.) And it's selling so well that they stopped production for Five Weeks this year because they CAN NOT SELL THEM.

HolyGod-"Only an estimated 5% are fleet purchases."

That's funny, because in December that number was 35% were fleet purchases. (it helps that the GM tries not to report Fleet sales of the Volt.) That same month, two out of every three dealerships that carry the volt DID NOT MANAGE TO SELL ONE.

You have a very funny idea of what constitutes 'pretty well'.


HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5093 Posts
Tuesday, August 07, 2012 8:57:00 PM
Megrendel

"How's that Volt working out? If it wasn't for the guv'mint buying the damn things, they wouldn't sell a single one."

Pretty well I guess. It is the #1 selling electric car in the US, it outsells the Prius. According to The Green Car Website, the Chevy Volt posted sales of 1,849 units in July, year to-date figures have reached 10,666 units.

Only an estimated 5% are fleet purchases, the west have been sold to consumer dealerships.

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