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Obamacare WILL Raise Papa John Pizza Prices

Hits: 8525 | Rating: (1.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Zeegrr60
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 1974 Posts
Friday, August 10, 2012 9:14:56 AM
Now that I know the Owner of Papa john's is a Mitt supporter,Gino's pizza,here I come!!

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Thursday, August 09, 2012 6:15:07 AM
@HolyGod:

However a true libertarian, as I understand it would do away with public schools, publicly funded fire and police, and almost any government oversight or regulation on businesses.

Kind of. Libertarians understand that there is a need for some governmental oversight (FDA comes to mind). We just suggest that this reponsibility occur at the state level instead of the federal level.

In this way, there would be more variation allowing for different methods to be evaluated. The number one issue with federal organizations is that they have a monopoly on power. Once the rules are set, they are in stone, and there is no longer any room for improvement.

If many states wanted to gather and create an EPA or FDA structure that they all agree to abide by, then that would also be fine.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5097 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 8:00:23 PM
HumanAction

"@HolyGod: You've almost perfectly described yourself as a libertarian... just saying."

I like a lot of libertarian policies. I'm a big fan of a lot of what Ron Paul says. However a true libertarian, as I understand it would do away with public schools, publicly funded fire and police, and almost any government oversight or regulation on businesses.

I don't trust the free market the way libertarians do. Without government oversight the poor working class in this country would be like China. We'd have 9 yr olds living in Nike factories working 20 hours a day for $1 an hour. And the waste would get dumped in the river out back. That isn't the country I want to live in.

I like the EPA. I like public education. I support public healthcare. I don't quite fit in the libertarian box either.

Runemang
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 2669 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 5:09:23 PM
Gas prices go up and down 30 or 40 cents between fill-ups and I'm suppose to run to vow support to the Romney campaign office because Papa Johns threatens to raise prices on a discretionary expenditure by 20 cents? Regardless of political affiliation, I think this just makes Papa Johns look more outwardly stereotypically corporate and less like the kindly "everyday Joe" pizza maker they try to portray in the commercials. Well done. Lemme know how that works out for ya.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:49:29 PM
@markust123: Now I get it... You only managed to make it through Junior High.

Things make so much more sense now. I apologize (I know it is frowned about to argue with people of... lesser intelligence).

Let us now see if you truely have, "thrown in the towel" =). This is fun.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3785 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 4:34:44 PM
@HumanAction, I'm throwing in the towel. One time through junior high was enough.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:39:51 PM
You make glad I'm a libertarian HumanAction, it's great to see more people begining to oppose such rampantly popular statism.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:21:24 PM
@Cajun247: Let alone the fact that the argument still suggests that the US is more "privatized" or completely "privatized."

Most honest citizens know this to be false, thus dismissing the original argument on the basis that critical assumptions are false.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:19:35 PM
There is a chart there that shows how every nation with universal care or the Swiss mandated care, regardless of level of government intervention has less % of GDP spent on healthcare than the US.


Just because it may cost a smaller of share GDP does not mean it works as expected, nor are the citizens satisfied with the system.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:18:31 PM
@patchgrabber: Certainly I will not debate by myself, and therefore cannot possibly "flame" you whilst you are away.

Perhaps we can take it up again on the next Obamacare post?


I would expect nothing less.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:16:28 PM
@patchgrabber: Well you've just admitted to fallacy of single cause then.
Your reasoning here is a fallacy in itself (this is fun). When I state it to be the LARGEST single cause, it automatically creates the possibility of other causes. Your understanding of fallacies is infantile and your logic weak.

How can you possibly demand that your claims of fallacies be respected when you yourself both commit so many, and falsely accuse many others?



patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:12:39 PM
Although I'm sure I'll get flamed for leaving the discussion now, I have little choice in the matter. Perhaps we can take it up again on the next Obamacare post?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:11:44 PM
@cajun: Look at HA's link to healthcare in the US. There is a chart there that shows how every nation with universal care or the Swiss mandated care, regardless of level of government intervention has less % of GDP spent on healthcare than the US.

@HA:
though I suggest it is the largest single cause


Well you've just admitted to fallacy of single cause then.

My question to cajun is not argumentum ad populum, but nice try. Not so good at these fallacy things? Must be why you commit so many of them. I didn't say that "It doesn't work because no one does it." I merely asked why no one is using it if he thinks it works so well. See the difference? One is a declarative statement, the other is just a question.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:05:11 PM
@markust123: I've already offered an explanation in this thread.
Rather poorly wouldn't you say? I've already shown how it was not a straw man argument.

You sound like a woman who can't let things go.
That's not a very liberal thing to say; are you sure you aren't a sexist? It certainly appears that way.

Also, aren't we BOTH continuing the discussion? Does this not also imply that you are behaving "like a woman"?

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:02:25 PM
@patchgrabber: So you refute that by saying medicare is the reason healthcare costs rose

Whoa there, that is not what I am representing. I am saying that, the biggest single cause of increasing costs is government intervention. I am using Medicare as an example. I have not once stated that government alone is the cause (though I suggest it is the largest single cause). It would be rather foolish to neglect the social causes - such as increased obesity.

Some more fallacies at a glance:

If the prospect of a free-market healthcare seems so attractive, then why is there not one free market system out there?
Appeal to Common Practice, Appeal to Popularity

Privatization on grand scale inevitably leads to crony capitalism
Confusing Cause and Effect

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:00:38 PM
Well since I've already shown how total government intervention actually leads to less cost than your current system


Your idea of "total government intervention" doesn't add up as I've already explained how govt intervention varies between countries with "universal health care". You're one example of Switzerland shows how govt intervention makes matters worse and is actually undesirable to the Swiss.

markust123
Male, 40-49, Western US
 3785 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:00:07 PM
@HumanAction "Please, explain. You simply state that I've committed this fallacy yet offer no explanation. I am rather curious to see how you've come to this."

I've already offered an explanation in this thread. Are you sure you didn't check the wrong box? You sound like a woman who can't let things go.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:57:34 PM
@HA: So you refute that by saying medicare is the reason healthcare costs rose so much that you are committing a logical fallacy? If that's not what you said then maybe but it sure sounds like you're blaming the rise of costs on medicare alone.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:55:56 PM
@HA: If you're implying that my comment regarding pizza price being worth it for the increased care you'd receive, then you're establishing a causal relationship where none exists and where I never implied one.

@cajun: Well since I've already shown how total government intervention actually leads to less cost than your current system, it's not another wrong, it's just a better way to do things.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:49:31 PM
Since the focus now is on fallacies, I'd like to point the "2 wrongs make a right" fallacy with the comment about how free markets lead to crony capitalism. So because we're going to have costly unnecessary govt intervention eventually we must implement it now, even if the current system actually works? Talk about a rush to injure oneself.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:41:58 PM
@patchgrabber: Now who's being wilfully ignorant?

Still you, of course.

Perhaps you should look into logical fallacies, as you commonly reference them, yet obviously lack an understanding of them. This is not my job to educate you about fallacies.

And since you didn't deny those fallacies in your illogical comparison to medicare in the '60s I'll just assume you see what you did wrong.

Well look now and see who is being willfully ignorant. Here you go - I refute your claim. Now we have both put forth equivalent counter arguments. Should I assume now that you understand how baseless you counter arguments are?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:38:39 PM
@HA: And since you didn't deny those fallacies in your illogical comparison to medicare in the '60s I'll just assume you see what you did wrong.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:37:31 PM
@HA: Now who's being wilfully ignorant? I'm also not getting how that one statement was single cause. Papa John's said they will have to increase pizza prices because of Obamacare, not because of anything else. You may need to recheck what single cause is. The same with incomplete comparison. I provided a link to the study, it's not my job to read it to you.

HumanAction
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2353 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:33:04 PM
@patchgrabber: Well first of there's fallacy of a single cause. Then there's incomplete comparison, possibly circular cause and consequence, etc.


Of course I know you disagree but to many people the 15-20 cent pizza increase is worth taking care of your sick and wounded

Single Cause, check.

this 2001 study found to be at least 46.2% of all bankruptcies in those 5 states

Incomplete comparison, check.

Seems you've confused me for yourself.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Wednesday, August 08, 2012 1:30:50 PM
That's your perogative.


...and? You have yours.

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