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How To Suck At Your Own Religion

Hits: 7676 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: Misc. | Added by: NNoamfer
Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 12319 Posts
Saturday, July 28, 2012 7:25:39 AM
The oatmeal rocks. But he should have drawn Mohammed. Here:


jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 3:13:25 PM
Even the Republican party of Texas recognizes the threat critical thinking poses to received beliefs and the authoritarian power structures such beliefs rely upon. Their 2012 Platform states: "We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 3:13:19 PM
Critical thinking, when unfettered and sufficiently informed, always reveals religious beliefs to stem from wishes and fears, not from the evidence of reality. The fact that plenty of religious people fancy themselves critical thinkers is a testament to the human capacity for self-deception, rationalization, compartmentalization, and other such strategies used to reduce cognitive dissonance--not an argument for the coherence of religious ideas themselves.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 3:13:12 PM
Raising a child in a religion and raising them to think critically are not mutually exclusive.

Of course they are mutually exclusive. Religion requires the use of conceptual prostheses: inherited ideas that are not to be questioned or tested for integrity, but are to be accepted as true based on authority. You are expected to adopt these ideas as your own and to defend them at all costs from threats external and internal. Critical thinking requires the use of living conceptual models: reasonable ideas that are to be questioned, tested, and re-tested for integrity, and are to be accepted as true based on their justifiability. You are expected to adopt these ideas provisionally and to seek always to update or discard them with new information and insights.

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 11:58:56 AM
Cartright

"You dismissing real faith"

Faith: belief that is not based on proof

WHY do you find that to be an admirable quality?

If you feel God has spoken to you or something like that, OK, I get it. But if you blindly believe something you have absolutely no proof of simply because for thousands of years other people before you blindly believed it with no proof, how is that a good thing?

HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
 5021 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 11:47:00 AM
Zach82

"It's kind of a parent's job to teach his or her children the truth, so far as one understands it."

Ignorance begets ignorance. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean you should saddle your children with the same naiveté.

I have kids. They aren't old enough to ask yet, but when my kids ask me questions like "How did the universe start?" or "What happens if we die?" I will tell them all kinds of different things. I'll tell them the best scientific understanding of the day, what various different religions think, what I personally think, as well as what some fringe groups think. Then I'd ask them if they have any ideas and then we'll talk about it.

In my mind that is the only correct answer to the question.

But Christians just point at the bible and inform them that is the answer.

cartright
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 58 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 11:21:08 AM
I agree with most that many religious people are crazy. However the bible does not simply say "Don't judge" --- It says "Judge not lest you be judged" then goes on to say that you will be judged with the same measure you judge others. We all judge, it is the nature of preference. You dismissing real faith because stupid christians misrepresent the bible, is as bad as stupid christians condemning you for not believing their way.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5717 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:57:43 AM
A child has to examine and question EVERYTHING a parent has taught him as he grows up, and religion is like every other belief in that regard.

I was raised Anglican, quite religion as a teenager. There was really no questioning anything when you're a kid, it was really to me just a place we went to compare clothes. a 4-year old cannot think critically about complex philosophical issues, they just model from their parents' response. The key is to allow them to make decisions and choices as they get a little older

madduck
Female, 50-59, Europe
 5776 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:56:37 AM
"It's kind of a parent's job to teach his or her children the truth"- well- some things you can say with truth. jump off a bridge and you may die or be horribly injured. Other 'truths' are more subjective- so perhaps it helps to teach a child critical thinking- logic- all that good stuff. It will help all throught their life in all manner of things....

unmercyfuldu
Male, 18-29, Western US
 773 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:55:40 AM
No, we can argue until we are blue in the face about the implications or raising children, but we wont get anywhere as we have very different understandings of the nature of reality.

You find faith the be an inspirational tool to finding and understanding a higher power. I find faith to be an empty word that people shoehorn in to situations where there is a void of logic.

I just realized we are speaking different languages and to continue would be futile.

Zach82
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 320 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:51:25 AM
The mark of reason: refusing to speak with people that disagree with you.

unmercyfuldu
Male, 18-29, Western US
 773 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:50:54 AM
Faith huh? Welp, it was nice talking to you.

Zach82
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 320 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:45:41 AM
That simply isn't true. Faith is all the more valuable when one embraces it freely. A child has to examine and question EVERYTHING a parent has taught him as he grows up, and religion is like every other belief in that regard. If you are objecting to shaming children into faith, I agree with you. But that is not the only mode of religious upbringing.

unmercyfuldu
Male, 18-29, Western US
 773 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:41:14 AM
@Zach82

Well I can attest to that, since I was raised in a very overbearing church and my parents taught me to question authority. But those two concepts have different goals in mind. I was both heavily indoctrinated and taught critical thinking and the indoctrination always played to emotion rather than logic.

But my point is that a child isn't some thing for you to stamp all your believed "truths" onto. A responsible parent teaches a child to question, not force feed with indoctrination.

While it is possible for both things to exist in parenting, their ideas are at the core mutually exclusive.

Zach82
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 320 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:33:21 AM
You are missing the point, unmercyfuldu. Raising a child in a religion and raising them to think critically are not mutually exclusive.

unmercyfuldu
Male, 18-29, Western US
 773 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:27:54 AM
"It's kind of a parent's job to teach his or her children the truth"

No, it is a parent's job to give a child the tools to identify ideas worthy of belief. It is another thing to instill in a child a belief that anything outside of that belief is bad and invokes anxiety and shame.

Zach82
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 320 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 9:20:52 AM
It's kind of a parent's job to teach his or her children the truth, so far as one understands it. One can raise a child in a religion AND teach them to think for themselves.

SilverThread
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3368 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 8:59:49 AM
Awww, he pussed out and didn't draw a picture of Mohammed, and then he complimented Judaism.

Subtly ironic in a way most people won't recognize I suppose.


darkmagic14n
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1633 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 8:23:46 AM
asking a child to ponder their own mortality


oatmeal confirmed for not having children. I have no problem, as an agnostic, to guide my child's upbringing by the bible, quran, and even some buddhist scriptures. I don't force feed her it and tell her if she does things bad, God will hate her; but that doesn't mean religious texts don't offer some great stories with morals, just as good as fables.

Kegomatix
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1316 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 8:21:37 AM
If only.

unmercyfuldu
Male, 18-29, Western US
 773 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 8:19:27 AM
"they only believe that something like a couple hundred thousand people will be allowed into heaven"

Well yes and no. It is more of a pyramid scheme than you realize, except they really have nothing to sell. Mormons believe there are several layers to heaven and everyone goes to one layer or another. That is the point behind all their posthumous baptisms.

panth753
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 8861 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 7:39:37 AM
I'm a Christian and I thought it was funny. Moving along now.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5717 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 7:19:45 AM
Well, this was mostly aimed at Christians, but a lot of it isn't wrong though. Canadians demonstrated the existence of stem cells btw, in a proud tradition of Canadian scientist heathens.

The Mormon panel got me thinking about Jehovah's Witnesses though, because they only believe that something like a couple hundred thousand people will be allowed into heaven, yet they try to convert as many people as possible in order to be one of those few people. It's like a religion pyramid scheme!

NNoamfer
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1192 Posts
Friday, July 27, 2012 7:07:12 AM
Link: How To Suck At Your Own Religion [Rate Link] - The Oatmeal gives us a true and educational comic, today about religion.


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