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Neil deGrasse Tyson On Intelligent Design [Pic]

Hits: 11944 | Rating: (2.9) | Category: Science | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24172 Posts
Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:13:47 AM
You're right. I was wrong when I wrote that. They're not *completely* seperate in other mammals.

@Angilion, excuse me a moment...

**does the 'happy cat' dance**

Ah! That's better! Glad we could come to an understanding over our misunderstanding, eh? It was only a misunderstanding, no hurt feeling on my part.

I still think that there isn't a "better way" to do it, evolutionarily speaking, or else that way would be normal! QED right?

It could be "improved" for various tasks, that's true! But over the next 1000 years would those improvements help or hinder the species?

I've explained my definitions, if you know of a more accurate term please let me know! "ID" is not one single, unbending theoy, there's lots of variations: much like Christianity OR Atheism... or Evolution for that matter...

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 12964 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:27:36 PM
Ollie, this vid is from a different lecture in the series so the transliteration is different, but it's no troll:

Well, davy, you got me on that one. Well played.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11035 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:58:28 PM
Quit using YOUR beliefs to twist my words, thx.


You're using words *that already have a defined meaning*.

So they're not your words. You don't get to redefine them at will and then complain when other people use the existing meaning.

I could state that phoneboxes can fly and then later state that MY opinion is that "phonebox" is the name of a type of seagull. Does that mean that everyone should redefine "phonebox" to be the name of a type of seagull? If so, what should everyone call actual phoneboxes? Does everyone get to redefine words at will? How would language function if that was the case?

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11035 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:34:27 PM
Please stick to the fact: YOU said humans are the ONLY 'land mammals' with a common tube for breathing and eating. THAT is obviously FALSE.


You're right. I was wrong when I wrote that. They're not *completely* seperate in other mammals.

But it's also obviously wrong to ignore the key point - the setup in humans is distinctly different to all other mammals (and other animals) and that means that humans are prone to choking, quite often fatally. That is very obviously not an intelligent design and *that's* the key point.

Humans could do a better job, in many cases a far better job, of designing humans (and other animals). It is utterly irrational to claim that they are the product of intelligent design by a god with infinite intelligence, wisdom, knowledge and power when the "design" is inferior to that which humans could come up with.

MattPrince
Male, 40-49, Europe
 2223 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 3:30:08 PM
God is to perfect a being to have just spontaneously appeared. He must be the product of some form of, idk, intelligent design?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10210 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:49:45 AM
Quit using YOUR beliefs to twist my words, thx.


Atheists with beliefs?

Good one.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24172 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:43:06 AM
@patchy: Be quiet "Banger" Boy!
(I joke! I joke!)

Why don't you go somewhere and evolve?
(j/k! honest!)

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5684 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:51:19 AM
@5cats: That still makes you a creationist though.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24172 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:48:56 AM
As for MY opinion of ID:
If God created the Universe (and by definition, anyone or anything that created the Universe IS God! At least to us Deists, eh?) THEN:
God created all life IN the Universe too.
Get it? He "designed" the whole Universe! Ok?

Quit using YOUR beliefs to twist my words, thx.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24172 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:45:51 AM
@Angilion: You're utterly daft:
Here is what I ACTUALLY WROTE:
#2) ALL creatures have unified breathing/eating tubes through their necks. The ones who didn't are extinct.


Yes I made a mistake, by all 'creatures' I meant all 'land mammals' K?
Then YOU said:
Most animals have the two seperate. Humans are the only mammals that don't.


Only NOW you're going on about something entirely different, claiming I said shiite I didn't say.
Please stick to the fact: YOU said humans are the ONLY 'land mammals' with a common tube for breathing and eating. THAT is obviously FALSE.

Where you're getting off on the rest is your own little fantasy realm...

monsterzero
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 344 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 9:38:02 AM
No matter how hard this guy tries, he'll NEVER be as cool of an astrophysicist as Brian May.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5684 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:52:16 AM
This is a very non-compelling argument against ID in my opinion. The thing about ID that irritates me so much is that they try to claim science supports it. That's the area you need to dissect.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5684 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:32:43 AM
and those of all other mammals are unlike the one that humans have in the way that was being referred to in the original point - choking risk.

If your definition of choking is food entering the trachea, then other mammals' epiglottis serves the exact same function. The "common section" is just the throat itself. The esophagus is directly behind the trachea, and the epiglottis covers the trachea when swallowing. This is true of all mammals.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11035 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:23:19 AM
Epiglottis, and all mammals have it.


and those of all other mammals are unlike the one that humans have in the way that was being referred to in the original point - choking risk.

Yes, there's a common section *before* the two tubes in question (trachea and esophagus) and that's what 5Cats will see when he looks into a dog's mouth, but that's not the point.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10210 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:16:14 AM
Pascal's Wager? Seriously?



For the record I'm Agnostic because there is no way to test God's existence. For that matter has it ever proven what anyone will percieve after death?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5684 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:05:53 AM
Humans, unlike most animals and all other mammals, have their breathing and eating tubes joined together at a place and in a way that makes it impossible to breathe and swallow at the same time

Epiglottis, and all mammals have it.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5684 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:02:53 AM
Atheism: when you die = oblivion, nothing, nada, the end.
Deism: when you die = ??


I'll take ?? over absolutely zero any day thanks.


Pascal's Wager? Seriously?

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11035 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:57:59 AM
I'll also look at a dog's throat and see only ONE COMBINED tube (at least for a very short length), and make up my own mind thanks.


So you'll have a quick look at a small part of something you don't understand and conclude that you know more than everyone in the world who is an expert on that subject.

You're definitely a creationist.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11035 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:55:08 AM
So Dogs, cats and other mammals have TWO seperate tubes: one exclusively for breathing and one exclusively for eating? Never do the two merge? Is this true?
That's a yes/no answer, eh?



It's a transparent attempt to change what's being argued about.

Obviously, you're trying to make that change because you know that the original point, the point that was actually being made, is evidence against your favoured brand of creationism.

I am not going to give an answer to the irrelevant question you made up in order to divert attention away from the point that was actually being made. The reason I won't do so is that giving any answer helps you divert attention away from the point that was actually being made:

Humans, unlike most animals and all other mammals, have their breathing and eating tubes joined together at a place and in a way that makes it impossible to breathe and swallow at the same time, resulting in a fatal choking risk.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11035 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:49:45 AM
ID = Evolution.
SOME folks may disagree, but this is the branch of ID I support.



So...you've made up a radically different definition for a phrase that already exists and already has a well-defined meaning.

Why have you done that?

Why do you expect people to use your strange redefinition and not the established meaning?

It's like someone insisting that Canada is in Africa (because they'd redefined 'Africa' to mean 'America').

@Angilion: I'm not a "creationist" you oughta know that by now.


You're redefining words and arguments on an ad hoc basis in order to prop up the belief that a god created all life on Earth in the form it is in now or at least very close to that form.

You're a creationist.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24172 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:40:06 AM
@MattPrince: Yeah you have a point: nothing is nothing to fear, since one won't exist anymore anyhow...
I'd prefer to continue to exist however I'm funny that way!

No worries mate!

Yes I too think @Angilion has it wrong, but was too tired to find proof. I cannot think of a mammal that does NOT have a common airway/foodway in their mouth/neck at some point. If you can breathe through your mouth? There HAS TO BE a common tube.

Most assuredly: dogs CAN choke! Just not as easily as us humans.


8BitHero
Male, 18-29, Europe
 5426 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:08:32 AM
Bloody heck this man is awesome.

MattPrince
Male, 40-49, Europe
 2223 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:46:55 AM
and my favourite bit of stupid design...

The weakspots in our abdominal cavity that our balls had to descend through due to evolution from a common ancestor with sharks.

Inguinal hernia anyone?

MattPrince
Male, 40-49, Europe
 2223 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:44:41 AM
@5cats, in that case my apologies for inferring wrongly.

By abysss - I mean figuratively, nothing is nothing to fear if you see what I mean, its the transition that might be, erm, awkward :)

I think Angillion wasn't clear about the diffs between dogs and humans btw - its the position of the larynx that is different, ours is low, dog is high, meaning a dog can easily close of its windpipe whilst eating, whereas we are at greater risk of choking... Angillion, correct me if I'm wrong.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24172 Posts
Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:34:57 AM
@MattPrince: I missed it too, it looks like things were pretty lively at IAB last night!

AHHH! Claw first!!! (on his hammer, eh?)

I sense you'd be happy if aethiests tried to repent on their deathbeds and failed, 5Cats.

No, not in the slightest! Since I'm a Deist it really doesn't matter (to me) even a tiny bit what OTHERS do on their deathbeds, eh? In fact I'd be terribly sad for them and their families, this last minute "hedge my bets" is hardly going to impress Jehova, eh? Allah even less!

may have to be dragged into the abyss,

ABYSS! (I've seen it, halucinations, long story)
You should BE SO LUCKY!
Nope: it's game over for you atheist! NO afterlife at all.
ANY afterlife of ANY sort (including reincarnation) would PROVE the existance of a "soul" (soul force, soul energy, whatever)
Soul = God.

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