 5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
 17463 Posts
|
Saturday, July 14, 2012 10:47:01 AM
@HolyGod: I've heard that arguement too: God is an "extra step".
Except for ooooone little problem: MOTIVE!
Why did God make the Universe? idk, but I'll bet he had a reason!
Why did the BigBang make the Universe? No reason.
It seems more "logical" to me to chose the one with motive, rather than the (Infinity-1):1 "lucky chance" eh?
Infinity minus one... |
|
 HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
|
Friday, July 13, 2012 10:19:32 AM
5Cats
Here is my point about the big Bang / God opinion that I have heard several times:
People say God created the Big Bang.
Why?
Because it had to come from somewhere.
So everything had to come from something?
Yes.
Then where did God come from?
....
You arrive at the exact same problem, so remove the deity and save a step. |
|
5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
17463 Posts
|
Friday, July 13, 2012 1:50:39 AM
"Religion starts with a made-up conclusion..."
I disagree @LJ and here's why:
It may be a 'nit' I'm picking but both Science and Religion observe the REAL WORLD and try to come up with explainations for HOW it is!
How did we get here? How did the Sun form?
Why THESE mountains, why THIS sky?
(send it up/watch it rise/see it fall/gravity's rainbow)
Zennnnnn
Ooops! Back now! Well, they just came up with different explainations. Just because science is "more modern" doesn't mean it's not got a LOT in common with the philosophies that came before it. |
|
5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
17463 Posts
|
Friday, July 13, 2012 1:45:25 AM
@HolyGod: Glad you picked up on the "fairy tale" aspect, even though Shreck (the storybook) is modren I think it still counts.
Thanks for the reference (Book, chapter verse) It's a pet peeve of mine when either side (ESPECIALLY the "christians" -lower case because I believe this group to be false) fail to do so.
That donkey didn't talk, she was... like... a puppet! YEah! That's it!
"Why do you need God to have made the big bang?"
We don't "need it" BUT the explaination is EXACTLY the same for BB and God (and His creation): Was there before time & space, always was and always will be, just happened *poof* so fast! Violates all the laws of physics we currently know, but that's OK because we have "faith" in science/God...
Just sayin... |
|
 Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
562 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:17:20 AM
The difference between science and religion:
Religion starts with a made-up conclusion and then denies any and all conflicting evidence, by any means necessary, in order to support that conclusion.
Science starts with a hypotheses and tries to disprove said hypotheses through observation, reproducible testing results and corroborating, empirical evidence. If said hypotheses can not be disproved through these means it then becomes a theory that stands until disproved by better testing methods.
The problem is that society dictates that an individual's "beliefs" or faith should be respected, no matter how ludicrous or delusional. This has lead to such things as willful ignorance at best and ethnic and religious cleansing, inquisitions, religious wars and heinous acts of terrorism at worst.
Respect for religion is an irresponsibly obsolete and dangerous practice. History repeatedly proves this.
 LJ |
|
HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:31:06 AM
danthew
Why do you need God to have made the big bang? |
|
HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:29:14 AM
5cats
Hmmm. I often do get my fairy tales confused. Let me check. Nope. Talking Donkey. Bible. Numbers 22:28.
Science has been wrong. And it will be wrong again. But it is the best we have at any given point with the information we have. It evolves. It progresses. It gets better every day. Religion stays the same. The same book written and rewritten and translated and retranslated hundreds of times from the folk stories passed down from generation to generation by ignorant nomadic tribes people thousands of years ago. |
|
 darkmagic14n
Male, 18-29, Western US
1634 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:45:56 AM
"Turn To Salt = nulcear blast burns "
 |
|
one47master
Male, 18-29, Europe
37 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 7:56:45 AM
@TheGuySmiley Einstein was a naturalist. When he used the word god, he did not mean what anyone with faith means. When he talks about god, he talks about the natural universe.
@patchgrabber. Exactly what I was going to say.
I really think that anyone who says god started the big bang, cannot claim to be a proper physicist. Show me the maths that God did that and I will believe you.
I don't know what happened or why we are here. I want to know but I don't pretend I am right about something I actually don't know for certain. Until I have been shown beyond reasonable doubt that I am right, I will not say I am until then.
Anyone with "faith" should give up faith and do the same. faith is the excuse used in the absence of any evidence |
|
 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5332 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:43:06 AM
Unless you, yourself, have done the science then you are also taking it by faith.
Um...no. An academic paper is peer-reviewed, and they are also supposed to give you all the information needed to reproduce the study. The Bible does none of this. If it were faith it would be belief in something that is not testable, or even likely. I assume when you said "Christian physicist" that you meant 'physicist' in the sense that you like physics, because if you're an actual physicist then you don't have any idea about the platform to publish your own results. |
|
 Ozmose
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
385 Posts
|
Thursday, July 12, 2012 6:16:39 AM
"Aside from the creation story I can't think of anything in the Bible or in science that completely contradicts each other."
The Bible contradicts itself more than anything.
I remember this part where God wipes out all the first born in Egypt.
*skips ahead a few chapters*
"The sons shall not pay for the sins of the father"
O_o |
|
5Cats
Male, 40-49, Canada
17463 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:01:12 PM
TSK! @Holygod: If we looked back at some of the STUPID things "science" used to say was true, the list would be a LOT longer as MUCH stupoider than yours, k? Apples vs Apples plz!
Many things you list DO HAVE scientific explainations: at least possible ones...
Blood Rivers = red tides
Turn To Salt = nulcear blast burns
Living In a Whale = it was a BIG fish! Not a whale
Virgin Birth = it's been documented many times
Talking Donkey = You're confusing the Bible with Shrek...
:rimshot: |
|
 SarahofBorg
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
3547 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:35:08 PM
Religion doesn't require evidence, because then it would be science. That's the fundamental difference between religion and science. |
|
HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
3058 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:55:35 PM
danthew
"Aside from the creation story I can't think of anything in the Bible or in science that completely contradicts each other."
Outside of the creation story you can't think of things in the bible that contradict science? Have you actually read the bible?
Let me make a quick list for you, you may want to re-read:
2 of every animal living on a boat for 40 days
A man being strong because his hair is long
Seas parting
Rivers turning to blood
People turning to salt
A man living in a whale
A virgin giving birth
A man walking on water
A man rising from the dead
A talking donkey
The Earth being flat
Etc
Etc |
|
 TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
1222 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:37:21 PM
All sensible people know that in the end Science and Religion will go hand in hand. Even Einstein said something like that too. |
|
 danthew
Male, 18-29, Europe
2137 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:10:52 PM
To play (ironically) the devil's advocate.
Science evidence: It says so in an academic paper.
Unless you, yourself, have done the science then you are also taking it by faith. Don't be hypocritical, be respectful.
(I'm a Christian physicist. My personal view is to be respectful of other's beliefs because I'd like others to be respectful of mine. I don't believe in the Genesis creation story, I believe, however, that God caused the big bang, setting the "initial conditions" if you like that determine everything that happens. Aside from the creation story I can't think of anything in the Bible or in science that completely contradicts each other.)
|
|
krw888
Male, 50-59, Canada
135 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:48:35 PM
So the universe was created from a TV sitcom...
And you expect me to believe that?? |
|
slimofswiv
Male, 30-39, Europe
116 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:20:36 PM
i've only ever got anything from science, none of the others lol, fcuk the rest of them, and fcuk you yanks too |
|
 Johanvb
Male, 40-49, Europe
283 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:24:58 AM
F* science. I choose Norse.
Science may be the truth, but it just can't beat a story about a fight with a giant that gets ripped apart to call it home. |
|
 jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
135 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:35:21 AM
@turdburglar: Wrong. People deconvert all the time because of "internet words".
Here are a few examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
And that's just a sampling from a two-day period at a single forum. |
|
 IRockYeah
Male, 30-39, Europe
2155 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:34:39 AM
Science is right???
God help us all. |
|
 FartCommandr
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
83 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:16:22 AM
its funny how a couple of them had gods sprout from EARTHLY creatures such as SNAKES, COWS, AND TREES ! Before the earth was made. Its amazing how evolution still doesn't work fast with alot of human brains. |
|
 Grumpdock
Male, 13-17, Europe
323 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:03:11 AM
And so was the great poostorm of this day.
(until the next post flaming religion comes along (tomorrow)) |
|
Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
562 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:51:52 AM
@TKD_Master
"I'm going to start telling Christians I worship the norse gods. When they say that is silly i'll tell them their religion is false and Odin will punish them for worshipping a false god. Then we'll get into an argument that nobody will ever win BUT just MAYBE they'll realize how stupid this poo is."
I used to have a bit of fun doing this exact thing in the 90's in AOL and Yahoo! chatrooms. Entering a fundy room and asking boldly if they had all heard the good news of Thor and would they mind if I spend a few minutes sharing the word of The Thunderer with them would usually get me banned or DDOSed within a few minutes.
Good times.
LJ
|
|
 turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
1948 Posts
|
Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:42:34 AM
@theists - just admit that your storys sound crazy.
@athiests - stop trying to change the theist mind. They have "faith" and your internet words will not change that. (just like these words won't convince either side to shut up) |
|
Back to Listing
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}
){kind=avatar}