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Isn't It Ironic? [Pic]

Hits: 13989 | Rating: (3.3) | Category: Weird | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:10:47 PM
Lord_Jereth: actually you read too much into it. I've seen the proof of God, and there is no doubt in my mind that God is real. I know everyone can see the proof if they follow the procedures of the Holy Bible with sincerity and a goal to seek the Lord. The line you brought out was an effort to find a middle ground on the definition of what a fact is.

FYI I don't live by dogma, but sadly i suspect something still binds you which you may be unaware of, afraid/terrified of, or despising. FYI "my work here is done" lol you didn't do anything!

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:32:28 PM
Lord_Jereth: actually you read too much into it. I've seen the proof of God, and there is no doubt in my mind that God is real. I know everyone can see the proof if they follow the procedures of the Holy Bible with sincerity and a goal to seek the Lord. The line you brought out was an effort to find a middle ground on the definition of what a fact is.

FYI I don't live by dogma, but sadly i suspect something still binds you which you may be unaware of, afraid/terrified of, or despising. FYI "my work here is done" lol you didn't do anything!

Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 707 Posts
Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:16:59 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

Your circular reasoning is astounding, but as I said in one of my first posts, repetition does not make your point valid. But, in the end, you did finally slip with the following statement:

"Your opinion is God is not a fact, mine is that God is a fact."

By your own words, you finally admitted, however subconsciously, that your whole premise is based on opinion. Well done. You have taken your first steps towards sanity and breaking the chains of your own confining dogma. I applaud you.

My work here is done.

LJ

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:41:52 AM
jkfld: Again, Love is not just a feeling, but a way of life. You would be wrong to assume that you know about me because there are things I strongly dislike. For example, when someone senselessly hates others without reason. It's not the person I hate, but the act. Some people are so lost in their way of life based on hatred (with or without their knowledge), that the only thing to do is hope and pray for them to find a change in their life because they reject all help. In case you haven't noticed, some people make hatred their way of life. While I understand you think mockery is successful because it works on those who abuse, it's more often abused used out of hate against people who aren't abusing.

You assert that love will never work, which is absurd in itself, since love can cure many ailments of the world. While you may have given up on it, the majority of people in this world know that is what the world needs, and that is what works.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 11:09:09 PM
Love has its place, as does hate, as does mockery. Mockery often works to disabuse people of ridiculous beliefs.

Your claim to have no dogma is absurd when you have been doing nothing but making dogmatic assertions about truth and reality which you refuse to accept as disputable, to entertain doubts about, or to diverge from.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 11:08:54 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

This is my last set of posts in this thread.

Love alone has never worked and will never work to "help the world". Love is a feeling that is sometimes appropriate and sometimes inappropriate, depending on the circumstances. Hatred is also sometimes appropriate, a fact you would apparently deny. In psychotherapy dealing with adult survivors of childhood abuse it is impossible for the victim to heal unless they admit to, accept, process, and integrate their perfectly valid feelings of hatred toward the people (usually parents) who abused them. Your repressive, truth-phobic philosophy, and your religion--which I'm assuming is Christianity, with it's command to "honor thy parents"--would stymie this process and leave such victims to languish in pain by preventing the conscious expression of legitimate hatred. Merely feeling hatred is not a sin, and will not magically bring evil into the world, because hatred, like love is just an emotion.

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17:24 PM
jkfld: mockery, whether it be towards a person or their beliefs, has no place in love, and therefore no place in the future. Correction, guidance, and urgings and pleas are all finer alternatives to mockery, which can be exercised quite well through love.

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 3:03:19 PM
jkfld: I don't live by dogma, and honestly, it sounds like that's a lot of what you were talking about. Dogma isn't good, but faith in God and loving one another is. Having love for one another, all people, not just members of a congregation or your friends and family, but ALL people is what will help the world. While it can be hard to do that towards those who live by hate, or towards someone who has killed a friend or family member, or done something like genocide or worse, it's not our place to judge, but to strive to love one another. Being quick to forgive and slow to anger, and to help others see how learning from the author of Love, God, can help cure this world of so many things. Love is the key.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 2:35:24 PM
Note that these consequences must be imposed upon you. They are not the natural consequences of unbelief. If you are part of one of the religions that it sounds like you are a part of, the "love" that you are so sure animates you and the members of your church is only to be found for each other, not outsiders. That is the very definition of the "divisiveness" you decried earlier, for it *divides* people into the good and bad by virtue of their beliefs--not their behavior--and takes action to strictly punish those whose beliefs do not conform to religious dogma. How would your parents react if you told them you were an atheist? What about your pastor, your friends, and the rest of your family? Would they accept you, or would they reject you? Would you be kicked out like so many young atheists and forced to find a new place to live? Is that love?

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 2:35:13 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

Mocking a person's beliefs is not the same as mocking a person. One of the traps religion creates for the minds of its believers is the idea that you *are* your religious beliefs. This trap is designed to trick you into defending those beliefs as though you were defending your very life. In reality, a person's beliefs change all the time as new evidence comes in, and it doesn't necessarily destroy their identity. However, as a religious fundamentalist, you are likely part of a community that will surely and swiftly introduce *artificial consequences* into your life should you admit your religious beliefs have changed or disappeared. The punishment you receive for apostasy may range from shunning to execution, depending on what religion you happened to be born into.

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 1:52:32 PM
... as right to express their opinions as you do. Arguing the specifics is pointless. Your opinion is God is not a fact, mine is that God is a fact. I can understand your opinion, which you're entitled to, and i'm not raging at you, but can you do the same?

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 1:51:02 PM
Lord_Jereth: Fact

a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

God exists, and it has been demonstrated by millions of people through faith in God. Many of them have changed the course of history, some have learned to communicate with God through the procedures of the Holy Bible. They're old procedures but they still work.

b. A real occurrence; an event

God created all of mankind

c. Something believed to be true or real

God is true and real. (notice how this works with your belief response that you 'quoted' and CAPITALISED.)



I understand it's your opinion that God is not a fact, but by the definitions of a fact, God is a fact. Sure you may not like it, and i can understand why, but you'll have to accept other people's opinions that God is a fact, because they have just as much rig

Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 707 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 9:38:39 AM
@TheGuySmiley:

"it's not about the feeling, but more about a fact being something believed to be true or real."

Incorrect. 'Belief' has nothing to do with whether or not something is a fact. The World English Dictionary defines the word, 'fact,' thusly:

Fact(fækt)

— n
1. An event or thing -known- to have happened or existed.

Belief, opinion, conviction, faith, etc. do not come into play. You BELIEVE your god exists, you have faith that he exists, you do not have verifiable knowledge or proof - you do not KNOW - that he exists.

"God is real and true, meaning God is a fact."

Circular reasoning (also known as paradoxical thinking or circular logic), is a logical fallacy in which "the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with". Circular logic cannot prove a conclusion because, if the conclusion is doubted, the premise which leads to it will also be doubted.
<

photomstr
Male, 50-59, Canada
 767 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 3:09:16 AM
don't waste bandwidth . . . there ain't no gods
why is the truth so hard to grasp? did evolution predispose mankind to superstition? it is sad that fiction writers of 2000 years ago can corrupt the most intelligent beings ever to have walked the earth!

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 3:01:04 AM
jkfld: it's not about the feeling, but more about a fact being something believed to be true or real. God is real and true, meaning God is a fact.

Love is much more than a feeling, it's a way of life. If you think it's not a worthy life to live that's your opinion. Look around you, the world is as it is because the lack of love. Some people are not strong enough to live a life of love, others are.

Generally you can tell mockery, despising, or scorning through the names someone uses against another. It is quite easy to see in the recent correspondence.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 12:40:22 AM
Love is a fine thing, but it is not an energy, or a force, or an intelligent being, or a source of objective information about the outside world--it is only a feeling. Feelings based on fallacious assumptions can be just as strong as feelings based on facts. You may feel like the love in your heart proves god is a fact, and you may feel like your discomfort at reading Lord_Jereth's words proves he is mocking you rather than generously offering you a learning opportunity, but you'd be wrong on both counts. And being wrong about such things can have dire consequences in the real world. The main thing I hear from people who wake up from religious delusion later in life is sadness over how much *time* they wasted, and how many people they unknowingly misled. I hope for your sake you wake up sooner rather than later or not at all.

jkfld
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 138 Posts
Monday, June 25, 2012 12:39:53 AM
@TheGuySmiley:
Just because you *feel* something strongly doesn't mean it's a fact. At this very moment there is someone who loves their spouse with the purest, most intense, deepest love imaginable. On the basis of the strength of their feelings and their interpretation of the meaning of those feelings, this hypothetical person "knows" with all their being that their spouse would never hurt them. This person would swear on the lives of their children that their spouse's commitment to their marriage is unshakable, and that their spouse's fidelity is a *fact* on par with the sky being blue and water being wet. But they'd be wrong, because right now their spouse is cheating on them with someone else.

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 8:07:07 PM
Lord_Jereth: Again, you're entitled to your opinion. And again, you'll get no where by mocking others, unless you want to quickly ruin your credibility.. but ultimately it's your choice. Love is the way of the future, and it would be wise to learn more of it.

Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 707 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 7:46:21 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

You attempt to redefine the English language and then accuse me of arrogance? My, we are just chock full of ourselves tonight, aren't we? Your own hubris is astounding.

How can you preach of the future, yet still be so blatantly, and pathetically, mired in the past? How can you preach unity and love when the very creed you so desperately cling to is so divisive by its very nature? You're hilarious!

While this has been fun in its own sad way, and as you so blatantly refuse to back up your assertions with any form of actual rebuttal, let alone actually addressing any of the myriad points I have made in my posts with any form of coherency other than petulant deflection and obstinately circular reasoning, I will leave you to your archaic dogma and obsolete superstition. You obviously deserve each other.

By the way, once again, your persecution complex is showing. Thought you'd want to know.

LJ

Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 707 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 7:18:48 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

Geesh, I have always hated the truncated 1000 character limit on this site.

"While it may not fall into your opinion of (what) a fact is ..."

Again, your ignorance is showing. My 'opinion' of what the word, "fact," means has nothing to do with the conversation. It is not my definition, but a definition that has been agreed upon over the course of several hundred years of academia, by folks much more studied in the subject than either of us. You are simply, and incorrectly, substituting the word, 'fact' for the words, 'belief' or 'opinion,' thereby attempting, in vain might I add, to lend authority to your misguided assertion.

You might want to revisit your 3rd-grade English course to learn the difference. Meanwhile, I hope your delusion keeps you warm at night, I really do. It sounds like it's probably all you have. I, on the other hand, choose reality. It's far more comforting.

LJ

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 7:08:51 PM
Lord_Jereth: i find it disturbing that you feel the need to take a superior stance, and you're signed up here as 2 age brackets above me.

It's kind of sad that you speak of logic but are unaware that the way of the future is love. Everyone can see the world needs more love. God is love and the future in store for us is based on love, where all are equal, and none is greater than another. It will be when all of us brings our unique traits to the table, so that we can uniquely fit together with each other, sort of like a jigsaw puzzle, but creating a beautiful work as one. The future, based on love, is beautiful.

Rejecting others, putting them down, insulting them, this has no part in the future. If you feel this is delusional, well that is your opinion, which you are entitled to.

Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 707 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 6:53:05 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

Your god is a myth, and that's the truth. Someday, when you grow up and learn to take personal responsibility for your own actions, instead of relying on some rehashed tribal war deity to justify your existence, maybe, just maybe, you will also know it is a fact.

What divides us is simply the division between the rational and the delusional. Please, try not to insult our collective intelligence by attributing more drama to the subject than is actually necessary. I will remove the log from my eye (an allusion to Luke 6:42 - a supposed doctor who somehow related the account of Jesus' crucifixion without ever actually having been there) if you will pull your own head from out of the sand.

Too funny.

LJ

TheGuySmiley
Male, 18-29, Canada
 1222 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 5:43:42 PM
Lord_Jereth: God is a fact, and that's the truth. While it may not fall into your opinion of a fact is, in due time you will also know it is a fact.

Also, first take the log out of your eye before trying to say to someone they have a splinter in theirs. You say "Your kind" which divides us and does you no credit, because the reality is we are all human kind. Dividers among human kind are like the enemy of mankind, because divided we fall, so it's best to avoid that type of talk.

Lord_Jereth
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 707 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 5:37:10 PM
@TheGuySmiley:

"God is real, and the majority of the world understands this fact too."

You do realize the FACT that the majority of the world do not believe in YOUR god though, right?

"It is the position of some theists that their right to freedom OF religion is abridged when they are not allowed to violate the rationalists' right to freedom FROM religion."
- James T. Green

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." ~Seneca the Younger

"I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do." ~D. Dale Gulledge

"Impiety, n.: Your irreverence toward my deity." ~Ambrose Bierce

I'm beginning to like you. You're far too easy.

LJ

Smutleybutt
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 909 Posts
Sunday, June 24, 2012 5:23:20 PM


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