 FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
 2858 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 9:34:02 AM
Both capitalism and socialism have some drawbacks. The reality is that very few Americans on the left actually want us to have a socialist economy. What we want is a balance. Keep the free market principles that make this country great for opportunity, but use the government to do what it's supposed to do: protect the people. Nearly every other industrialized country has decided that health care is a right, and shouldn't be for profit. We already provide socialized health care for seniors and veterans, we pay into social security, and most of us believe that access to public education is a right. |
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FoolsPrussia
Male, 18-29, Western US
2858 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 9:27:59 AM
Anyone here ever seen the Matt Damon movie, "The Informant!"? It's about collusion between companies to fix prices. It is, of course, illegal, but imagine how rampant it would be were there less regulation. |
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 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 9:19:30 AM
Add more competitors to the field by removing the onerous regulations that are removing competition and causing artificial collusion.
How do you magically add competitors? Do you actually believe the big HMOs will allow other players in the field? If you do then you need to re-evaluate capitalism. Why would they let newbies steal their market share? And why wouldn't they collude to keep prices up? |
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 AvatarJohn
Male, 30-39, Southern US
480 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:59:12 AM
patchgrabber, HMO's are a government-created construct, as is the entirety of the health care industry for the last 35 years. It used to work just fine until government got involved. The reason there's no competition is because you can't get health insurance across state lines and the tax code makes it almost impossible to get health insurance outside of your employer, so you don't get to choose.
The solution is simple, and you suggested it yourself: Add more competitors to the field by removing the onerous regulations that are removing competition and causing artificial collusion. |
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AvatarJohn
Male, 30-39, Southern US
480 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:55:25 AM
This is not hard to understand. There is a reason for this. Mitt Romney said it: "I like being able to fire people who provide services to me." In health care, thanks to Government intervention, you can't do that, and so the costs spiral and the care gets worse. It's a simple, simple cause and there is a simple, simple solution. Remove the regulations and the industry will flourish, with care improving and costs going down.
Read this article straight through for a more detailed explanation. This is not hard to understand, people: Why healthcare in America is screwed up |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:48:09 AM
If greed were allowed to run its course, it would drive down prices, through competition.
Ok AJ, you say this all the time but it's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. Competition to lower prices? So that's why the new video games that come out are different prices everywhere, regardless of platform or developer! It's called collusion, and that is exactly what you get when there's "competition."
Also, how exactly is there competition in a certain industry when 1-3 companies own 90% market share? They just keep prices up and squash anyone trying to put out a cheaper product. The "free" market hasn't been free in years. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5263 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:44:49 AM
There's your HMOs at work artificially inflating health care costs. |
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 randomxnp
Male, 30-39, Europe
769 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:41:58 AM
Burbclaver
Except that statistic was a blatant lie put out by a left-wing advocacy organisation |
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 ForSquirel
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
994 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:41:56 AM
"When they cut off your clothes after an accident what they are really doing is looking for your wallet."
:facepalm: |
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 Buiadh
Male, 18-29, Europe
6650 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:40:19 AM
Greed is bad.
The rich get richer and the poor get stuck in the ruts. |
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 The-Brit
Male, 50-59, Europe
108 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:39:53 AM
@Keyh - So you swallowed the propogana hook line and sinker then?
The UK and Canada are not Socialist and do well with health care. |
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 burbclaver
Male, 50-59, Western US
859 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:32:19 AM
And WTF are you going on about communism? This has nothing to do with it. Do we have a private army? No, it's run by the government. The state in most countries regulates or administers healthcare because it is the most efficient way to provide it as can be seen from these numbers. US pays a lot more for the same medical outcomes. |
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burbclaver
Male, 50-59, Western US
859 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:27:30 AM
Hospital bills are the largest cause of bankruptcy in America. When they cut off your clothes after an accident what they are really doing is looking for your wallet. |
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 Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
25611 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:27:10 AM
Capitalism is good.
Corporatism is bad. |
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 8BitHero
Male, 18-29, Europe
5420 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:23:46 AM
Damn, Americans are getting screwed over. D: |
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Keyh
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
193 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:05:33 AM
"Capitalism is built on greed and it produces it."
Socialism is built on acceptance of lesser quality and produces it. |
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 auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8689 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:52:43 AM
Untrue. Greed, is good.
If greed were allowed to run its course, it would drive down prices, through competition.
Government regulations drive up prices, along with high instances of malpractice, because you can sue for anything at all in this country. |
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 Mikeoxsbiggg
Male, 30-39, Canada
724 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:48:17 AM
Being in Canada and having a lawfirm's health benefits saved me. Any place else, I would have died 100%. It did cost me money but really how much would you spend? |
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 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:48:13 AM
Capitalism is built on greed and it produces it.
Socialism makes it worse. |
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 swoop408
Male, 18-29, Western US
1768 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:42:52 AM
It's okay. I'm cute enough to get all my things done for free.
I wish. |
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 kairobert
Male, 18-29, Europe
1634 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:38:52 AM
"Capitalism is fine and well; Runaway greed is another matter."
They are very connected. Capitalism is built on greed and it produces it. |
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 madduck
Female, 40-49, Europe
2854 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:34:15 AM
Hmm- I am 48. been working since I was 17 with four breaks for children. Always low paid work and Ni rates vary so not sure how much I have paid in to the system over the years. Nothing like this, and not a penny when I needed treatment. Thank God for the NHS...... |
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:27:33 AM
Tort reform would go a long long way in lowering costs. Tort reform would lower malpractice insurance rates, which in turn would lower costs for everything across the board. It costs doctors over $100,000 a year for malpractice insurance. Then there is the jungle of other insurance paperwork that has to be filed that they have to pay to have done for them. Also the nurses in their office have to have malpractice insurance, which the doctors pay for, and it goes on and on with even more expenses.
Dealing with insurances is the single biggest expense and headache doctors have, there are even more headaches if they take medicare patients, as many states are months behind on paying the doctors. |
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 Tekinette
Male, 18-29, Europe
255 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:20:57 AM
My dad had an X-ray yesterday, he paid 8 Euros (10$). I don't even want to know how much it would have been in the US. |
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 Corydoras87
Male, 18-29, Europe
613 Posts
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Friday, June 15, 2012 7:20:28 AM
I had to get some treatments, also in hospital for ruptured ACL, including MRI of the knee, surgery and 2 weeks of hospital stay, never saw 1 bill, insurance paid everything, also normal doctors visits and stuff. up until I was 23, then I had to get and pay my own insurance, but with that I only pay 1000$ per year maximum in treatments, the rest is paid by the insurance if necessary. so if I break an arm and the treatment costs 10000, I pay 1000 and he insurance the rest. at 100$ per month insurance premium.
(prices are estimates based on converting Euro to USD) I 'm german. |
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