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Is It Murder? [Pic+]

Hits: 17213 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 24 5 6 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Metalcraze
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 101 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:27:32 PM
Children aren't even safe in the womb,humanity is nothing but monsters.

EmagehtmaI
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 186 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:45:25 PM
Never mind. Thirty-three weeks pregnant? Heck, my sister went into labor at 35 weeks, and babies have survived at... 22 weeks? Twenty-four? Yeah, at 33 weeks pregnant, she should definitely be charged with SOMETHING.

BlankTom
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 6560 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:43:30 PM
"Didn't read the article, but how far along is she? Abortion arguments aside, I think it would probably be a safe bet to say that if she was past the stage where she could legally obtain an abortion, then she should be held accountable for the life of her infant (involuntary manslaughter, at least). If she was still in the stage where she could legally obtain an abortion, then (even though I personally don't believe in abortions, yet I still believe in a woman's right to choose) she should not be charged."

I didn't read your post but i'm assuming you asked me what color my shoes are. They are brown.

EmagehtmaI
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 186 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:41:27 PM
Didn't read the article, but how far along is she? Abortion arguments aside, I think it would probably be a safe bet to say that if she was past the stage where she could legally obtain an abortion, then she should be held accountable for the life of her infant (involuntary manslaughter, at least). If she was still in the stage where she could legally obtain an abortion, then (even though I personally don't believe in abortions, yet I still believe in a woman's right to choose) she should not be charged.

BlankTom
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 6560 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:39:00 PM
@thesandwich the reason it was only an "attempt" was because she called her friend after taking the poison and then was rushed to the hospital.

Do you think someone who takes poison then immediately after confesses to someone dear to them is *really* trying to commit suicide?

intrigid
Male, 18-29, Canada
 916 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:36:49 PM
To answer the question, no, it's not murder.

And regardless of what any law says, as far as I'm concerned, you have the right to kill yourself. To suggest otherwise is to argue that you are someone else's property. To me that is morally unfathomable.

thesandwich
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 151 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:30:40 PM
Now she did write in the note that she intended to take herself and the baby. And her (attempted) method was to drink a fatal amount of rat poison.

Does anyone actually think she was of sound mind and body when she made this decision? Yes a note does indicate premeditation, but there is premeditation in school shootings and I don't anyone would argue the attackers were of sound mind and body.

All and all this is truly an awful thing, a woman was left to her own with a child she could not care for and was so depressed about it she attempted to take her own life. At the most the woman deserves mental help, sadly not many people see that there is more than one victim here.

chunkymonkie
Male, 13-17, Canada
 675 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:27:03 PM
Attempting suicide but not succeeding is the most pathetic thing ever.

BlankTom
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 6560 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:22:31 PM
An Even Better Article
So the *real* story is that she was seeing a married man and is carrying her child. She got distraught when he told her that he wouldn't leave his wife to setup a family with her.

So she writes a suicide note to her "boyfriend" telling him that she plans on "taking this baby with me". And what does she do after taking the poison???? Surprise, surprise contacts some of her close friend to tell them what she did.

She gets rushed to the hospital and they save her life and successfully deliver her baby. Three days later, the baby dies as a result of the poisoning.

Xenophonix
Female, 18-29, Europe
 190 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:15:52 PM
Leesah - thankyou so much for your post! It all becomes clear, I was absolutely talking about human rights, perhaps if you had come along earlier, an argument could have been spared ;) I guess we are both right in our own way :/

FeelTheRide
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 521 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:12:29 PM
@BlankTom; let me rephrase: If the baby had been born under normal circumstances (minus the poison) it would have survived. Should have clarified that in the first place.

leesah
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 1577 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:02:05 PM
"You have a right to kill yourself."

You do not have a civil right to kill yourself. You have a human right to kill yourself. Human rights have nothing to do at all with law but civil rights ARE effected by law. So you're both right but you're right in different contexts and neither one of you are willing to get on the same page.

Ajikan
Male, 18-29, Europe
 1539 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:55:32 PM
Since they were conjoined.
I say the baby committed suicide successfully. The child and the mother was one organism at the time she drank poison.
I view abortion the same way I view getting a haircut or cutting your nails.

(Scenario where I would consider it murder:)If she drank poison then breastfeed the baby, that would be murder since they are no longer conjoined. Unless she decided to keep it leached on her umbilical cord, and it was functioning. To my knowledge it dries out if you don't cut it off.

BlankTom
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 6560 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:45:42 PM
@FeelTheRide the baby *was* born. IT survived for 3 days before it died due to the poison. The article "somehow" manages to leave that important bit of information out.

FeelTheRide
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 521 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:39:47 PM
If that baby would have been born at 33 weeks it probably would have survived. Very sad. I'm very pro choice; but this just seems wrong.

Xenophonix
Female, 18-29, Europe
 190 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:33:14 PM
Were threatening legal action.

The right to die debate is only about assisted suicide, not killing yourself!

Xenophonix
Female, 18-29, Europe
 190 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:31:58 PM
Macguffin, I'm not trying to offend you, and it is interesting that you have leapt to insulting me, but you are confusing me when you repeatedly say about people having their passports confiscated because they want to go to dignitas - an assisted suicide centre. The passports were confiscated because assisted suicide is illegal, not because she doesn't have a right to kill herself...

Perhaps we are at odds because you are using legal cases to defend rightful causes, it even says in the article that you posted that The gardia

MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
 2597 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:17:16 PM
>Macguffin, I'm tired...You have a right to kill yourself. <

I'm not really bothered about you being tired, tbh.

Nobody argued that those people who had their passports confiscated were mentally incapable of making an informed decision to end their own life. Their passports were confiscated on the simple basis that they didn't have a right to do so, and on no other grounds.

It honestly worries me that there's a GP who thinks suicide is "a right". I wouldn't plan on keeping your registration with the GMC if you were foolish enough to express that uninformed opinion to your peers.

To close, here is a recent case that highlights the actual rights people have (from Ireland, not the UK), just for you. I wont comment on this topic further, as I'm quite certain you'll continue to believe whatever you want in any case.

Insomniac89
Male, 18-29, Canada
 42 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:14:38 PM
Nope, just abortion.

emmettyville
Female, 40-49, Australia
 4230 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:58:21 PM
if abortion is legal, then, no.
if it's not, then yes.
is it morally wrong? that all depends on your views, doesn't it.

Xenophonix
Female, 18-29, Europe
 190 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:54:46 PM
Macguffin, I'm tired and this is off the subject so I'll try and put myself across simply. I am a GP. Laws are things made that stop people exacting their rights because it may harm themselves or others. You have a right to kill yourself. There are certain laws that can take away this right - for example in assisted suicide or where you lack mental capacity to make an informed decision. But the fact remains that outside these laws, there is nothing preventing your right to kill yourself. I don't know whether in the police you are trained to see things as more black and White for ease of admin, but the fact remains that if I wanted to take an overdose tonight and I did not tell anyone then I am perfectly within my rights to do so and it would be perfectly legal.

You are confusing the cases where law has taken away my rights for safety reasons.

MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
 2597 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:46:26 PM
Something tells me you wont ever get it, Xeno, no matter how much anyone explains the differences between "rights" (which enable you to do things) and "laws" (which dictate your responsibilities). All I can say is, I've got experience of working in the Police Service in the UK, and you haven't. There are cases on file of people having their passports confiscated to prevent them from exercising that "right" you would like to believe they have to commit suicide, despite them not having committed any offence that would warrant such a seizure or travel restriction. Even when they've not otherwise been detained under the Mental Health Act or considered incapable of making their own decisions. Believe it or don't, it wont make it stop being true.

mar95789
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 188 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:41:40 PM
Yes

Xenophonix
Female, 18-29, Europe
 190 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:36:50 PM
Macguffin - There is a _law_ which you can detain people under the mental health act for if someone has a mental illness which causes a lack of mental capacity for them to make informed choices - ie: they are crazy therefore they are not in the right mind to make an informed decision about suicide. Yes, most patients who want to commit suicide are mentally unsound and therefore should be detained in their own best interests. People still have the right to kill themselves though. In my last post I was saying you have the _right_ to kill yourself, but it is illegal to do so with assistance. I am not confusing right and law - patients who are detained from committing suicide are detained under lawful proceedings.

DrProfessor
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 3884 Posts
Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:36:49 PM
I think an important point is that she was fully aware of, and potentially counting on, the impending termination of the fetus. She wrote her boyfriend "...and I'm taking this baby with me." as in... "F*ck you, I'm going to kill both myself AND this baby." Which shows intent both to harm herself and to harm the fetus. It's legal to harm yourself, but it's not legal to intentionally harm a pregnant woman's fetus (after a certain point in the pregnancy).

The question is, is it still illegal to harm the fetus if the pregnant woman in question is yourself?

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