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Birth Of A Climate Denial Crock

Hits: 5610 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: Science | Added by: Squrlz4Sale
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:18:49 PM
CrakrJak: I'm afraid you dropped the ball on Venus, somehow failing to mention the fact that the greenhouse effect is key to understanding the planet's history.

For a scientific treatment of the topic, I recommend this short article written by two planetary scientists associated with NASA's Ames Research Center.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17299 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:17:23 PM
patch: You mention a 'tipping point', only you neglect to mention where that point is. I know where they've estimated that it is, and it's 4ºC higher than it is now. Our current warming 'anomaly' is around a mere 0.2ºC and at it's highest point, a decade ago, it was 0.8ºC We are nowhere even close to their own estimated 'tipping point' and because of this lull in the solar cycle it's not likely it'll get any closer.
Fools: First off Venus is much too close to the sun, there is no evidence it ever had much liquid water on it's surface. The vulcanism on Venus never stopped spewing out sulfur dioxide which begets strong sulfuric acid for 'rain'. Venus never had a chance to be like earth. Mars may have once had liquid water on it's surface and a decent atmosphere, unfortunately it lost it's magnetic field and even scientists are puzzled as to why. Earth's magnetic field protects us from much of the Sun's radiation, Mars lost that protection and thus lost it's atmosphere

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3400 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:35:48 AM
Perhaps Crakrjak can explain why Venus is hotter than Mercury, despite the fact that Mercury is much closer to the Sun. It couldn't be because Venus has an incredibly high amount of CO2 in it's atmosphere, could it?

I suppose it would all be ok if Venus had some plants to absorb all that CO2, right?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:19:36 AM
Addendum: That last comment should have said pH "lowered", not raised, my goof.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:19:03 AM
Algae is the largest CO2 to O2 conversion plant life on Earth. 90% of the oxygen made comes from algae. Algae are the lungs of our planet and it's doing just fine.

Well seeing as how since the industrial revolution the pH of oceans has increased by 0.1 of a unit, and remembering that pH is a logarithmic scale, that means that the oceans are 30% more acidic than before the industrial revolution. Sure there are types of algae that thrive in acidic conditions, but those are usually near estuaries and land in general. This will be worse near the poles since cold water retains more CO2, and algae there are food for many larger organisms. Who knows when we go over the tipping point and then can't do anything about it. Better to do something now instead of being caught with our hands tied behind our backs later.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:14:07 AM
(Cont'd)

The chief problem we're seeing now, from the standpoint of balance, is that ENORMOUS reserves of carbon that were locked away beneath the surface of the Earth over the course of TENS OF MILLIONS of years--in the form of fossil fuels--have been released into the atmosphere in 100 years, the geologic BLINK of an eye. Compounding this problem, of course, is the extensive deforestation that has occurred at the same time.

That's the problem in a nutshell. Anyone not acknowledging the extensive science on this topic is either in the pocket of Big Oil or has his head stuck in the sand.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:09:04 AM
The overall science regarding equilibrium and global warming is easy to understand. I'll explain it here because, in all his talk of how the Earth "balances itself out, always has," you'll never hear it from CrakrJak.

The rough equilibrium between greenhouse gases and radiant cooling that Earth has developed is what has allowed for the evolution of enormous biodiversity and for man to flourish. It hasn't always been this way and it won't be this way forever, alas. Other planets--Mars and Venus--appear to have had periods of some degree of equilibrium at some point that no longer exists. (It's no coincidence that NASA's planetary scientists have contributed enormously to the science.)

(Cont'd next post)

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 5:32:25 AM
CrakrJak: No, CJ, YOU flubbed it on volcano CO2 emissions--and you flubbed it colossally. Although the facts had no effect on you the first time, I'll repeat them here:

Volcano emissions are DWARFED by man's CO2 emissions, a fact known and accepted by volcanologists the world over.

Experts estimate the Mt. Pinatubo eruption released 42 million tons of CO2 in 1991. Compare that with the current yearly CO2 emissions from fossil fuel burning: 26.8 BILLION tons.

This is well-known information, available to anyone willing to read reports of scientists, such as those found on the website of the USGS.

But let's be real here. I don't expect you to admit your error, nor do I expect you to visit the website of the USGS. Your purpose, after all, is not discussion or honest debate but propagandizing.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17299 Posts
Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:24:01 AM
turdburglar: I listen to independent scientists that are not in lockstep with the AGW agenda. Just because someone is educated doesn't make them honest, it doesn't mean they can't be coerced by money, fame and politics. Many people devote their lives to things that are wrong.
Don't trust anyone that claims superior knowledge, always be skeptical of those that wish to control your life to enrich their own.
Don't even trust me, Don't be lazy, Do your own research and listen to what the skeptics have to say, you may find their arguments more salient than the warmists claims.

MattPrince: Algae is the largest CO2 to O2 conversion plant life on Earth. 90% of the oxygen made comes from algae. Algae are the lungs of our planet and it's doing just fine.
Yes, deforestation is happening, so is reforestation. Plants grow better in higher concentrations of CO2, the earth balances itself out, always has. Quit buying into the zero sum game you're being spoon fed by the media.

MattPrince
Male, 40-49, Europe
 2223 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 11:51:13 PM
"Plants love CO2 and use it to grow, the carbon cycle is working just fine, doing the job it's done for billions of years. Taking CO2 and growing plants while giving us oxygen to breathe. "

Yeah and we all know the number of plants haven't changed recently eh?




Also whats with the billions, I though the earth was created a lot more recently than that, according to both our books.

turdburglar
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3775 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 11:48:20 PM
@crakrjak: Hey dum dum. Pretending that you are smarter than the scientists who have devoted their life to studying climate makes you stubborn...and maybe a bit ignorant. (I know you will point out that some scientists disagree with GW, but the majority agree)...But spending your time arguing and trying to convince a squirl and a fool that you are right...makes you an idiot. Sorry bud, truth hurts.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17299 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 10:59:49 PM
Squrlz: I explained how YOU flubbed it. Perhaps you should go back and look. When there are no major volcanic eruption the CO2 emissions from them are not significant, no big surprise there.

Your error is taking an average derived from inactive volcanic years and comparing them to a doctored estimated 'man made' number.

The real 'magic act' is the crap going on in the AGW warmists playbill. The more about their scam is revealed the more they go on the attack. They know their dog and pony show isn't working. Their bid for global control is waning, we can no longer afford their junk science.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 14822 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 10:35:51 PM
...and it's just a happy coincidence that all the prescriptions for global warming -- i.e., total government control of every aspect of your entire f***ing life, including who gets to spend all your damned money -- just happen to align perfectly with the goals of international socialism.

mvangild
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 528 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 9:45:55 PM
Crakr, temperatures aren't rising? Have you looked at the data you presented? Because it looks like the long term trend is going up to me.

I'm not going to get into what's causing it here. Maybe it's excessive CO2, maybe it's excessive methane put out by cows, I'm not certain. All we can do is speculate as to the cause. But I believe that something probably should be done about the excessive greenhouse gasses. That will be extremely difficult considering our increasing population putting more and more stress on our food supplies.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 9:27:51 PM
@squirlz4sale @foolsprussia:

You guys must be a magic act, you made CrakrJak disappear!

FoolsPrussia
Male, 30-39, Western US
 3400 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 9:01:54 PM
@Crakrjak: You spend all day tearing down mainstream science and then you post an episode of Penn & Teller, in which the only "scientists" they speak to (very briefly, mind you) are John Coleman, KUSI weatherman, and a guy who cites the DDT ban as a similar example of hysteria.

I watched the whole thing. They spend 95% of the episode mocking a few kooks and pointing out the hypocrisy of certain individuals within the green movement.

They even say at the end that they don't know if man-made global warming is real or not but that the earth IS WARMING, which you spent all day claiming wasn't even happening.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 7:44:06 PM
Hmmmm. Should I get my climate science from a funny magic act or from--oh, I dunno--scientists, maybe? Nah, I think I'll take a pass on the Penn & Teller and stick with NASA.

By the way, CJ, you never admitted you flubbed it on volcanoes. Or are you writing off the entire USGS now?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17299 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 7:40:17 PM
I see you pulled out the pre-2000 hockey-stick chart that's been debunked.

Perhaps you should watch this. Penn & Teller on Global Warming

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 5:02:35 PM
By the way, these NASA charts of global temperature would be the "empirical evidence" Randomxnp spent much of today bitching and moaning about.

I absolutely LOVE the way a poster who boasts he attended a "world-class university" somehow wasn't able to think of checking NASA's website for empirical data. You know, NASA: the world's best-funded, most scientifically advanced space agency? The one that puts up the satellites that measure global temperatures?

Clearly someone should be demanding a refund on that "world-class" education.

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6018 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 4:28:32 PM
Oh, CrakrJak, you lovable fossil-fuel propagandist, you! Where'd you get your funny chart? From one of your "Global Warming Is a Hoax" websites, no doubt.

Here, let me introduce you to a little actual science: A chart from NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, showing a steady rising trend in global temperatures through 2008.



But I forgot to play by your tinfoil hat rules, didn't I? NASA, after all, is comprised of career scientists, whom you've already stated are "the problem." Damn, experts! =^.^=

(If you or anyone else would like to see this chart and other similar ones yourselves firsthand, visit http://data.giss.nasa. gov/gistemp/graphs.)

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26307 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 4:07:59 PM
is that if the oceans aren't releasing more CO2 because according to you they aren't warming, then why do we see the sharp rise in CO2?

I missed that @patchy: but what are you saying? That Humans are NOT causing the CO2 increase? It's a NATURAL phenominon cause by things other than humans? I'm confused now...
I've never denied CO2 is going up, I just don't think it will cause the apocalypse...

THEN you say that we cannot accurately measure temperatures? WTF? Where is all this "warming" supposed to be happeneing if not everywhere? If one part of the land/sea/air is NOT warming, chances are outstanding the other two are not either!

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 3:46:39 PM
Crakr: I don't have to tell myself that. Your out of context, cherry-picked comment was easily explained away. You also fail to realize that plants aren't the biggest CO2 sink on the planet. Most of the atmospheric CO2 is sequestered in the oceans. How long do you think before oceanic CO2 becomes too high and fish start to die, or that we don't even really know how much CO2 the ocean can contain. When global temperatures start getting too high, if it's in my lifetime I'll be there to say I told you so.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17299 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 1:41:16 PM
patch: Just keep telling yourself that "Hide the decline" isn't self-incriminating. The global temperature isn't rising, the Greenland glaciers aren't receding, the sky isn't falling.

Plants love CO2 and use it to grow, the carbon cycle is working just fine, doing the job it's done for billions of years. Taking CO2 and growing plants while giving us oxygen to breathe.

Sooner people like you realize that our earth has a system of checks and balances and bounces back from anomalies like volcanic eruptions, the better off we all will be.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 1:27:28 PM
@Crakr: Oh, and one more thing about your graph, it shows a +0.123 degree C/decade raise in tropospheric temperature, not surface temperature. Also, those satellites have problems accurately estimating temperature on oceans or tropical areas, and since the graph doesn't specify a region, it is meaningless.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5728 Posts
Monday, May 14, 2012 1:14:43 PM
There is no 'consensus' when only 6-7 scientists are the ones behind the curtain, who in their own e-mails talk of manipulating the data to their own ends.

I'm amazed that "6-7 scientists" can publish hundreds of papers and do peer review for dozens of reputable journals. They must be really busy!
And those BS emails you keep referencing were investigated and no wrongdoing was found. But that's where your tinfoil hat comes in handy, doesn't it?

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