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Zimmerman Finally Charged With 2nd-Degree Murder

Hits: 8550 | Rating: (2.4) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21918 Posts
Friday, April 13, 2012 6:08:22 AM
@markust: Are you still playing the IAB drinking game? We have a "rage quit" here, with full-on troll accusations! LOLZ!

QQ, bye-bye!

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:50:14 PM
Odd, you suggested they couldn't tell RED from GREY it was so freaking dark!

Quote me. Right f*cking now. I dare you to find where I said he couldn't tell who was on top.

I said it's pretty difficult to determine whose voice it is during a fight, you ignorant troll.

I don't know, I don't recall reading what caliber it is, even.

Than you obviously haven't read all that much. It was a 9mm Kel-Tec PF-9.

Shows what you actually know... I'm done, you're a troll, plain and simple.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21918 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:54:09 PM
Z's story has actually changed a few times since all this started.

LINK it! I find that difficult to believe since Z hasn't even SPOKEN about it. I know his father said some stuff, which he later changed, but that's entirely different. 2nd and 3rd hand reports are NOT 'facts' ok?

seeing someone's lips moving

Odd, you suggested they couldn't tell RED from GREY it was so freaking dark! Now a handgun is clearly visible to a witness (IF there was one)(but there is not). Do we even KNOW what the gun looks like? Shiny nickle or dull black? I don't know, I don't recall reading what caliber it is, even.

Just catching you trying to "work both sides" @Altaru! No ill will intended.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:14:55 PM
Wait, I thought Z had "no reason" to feel his life was threatened?

Whether he did or not wouldn't have mattered if he hadn't (possibly) caused a situation, and that's the problem with the law: You can START something, then kill someone when you start losing. How crazy retarded is that sh*t?

M 'seeing the gun' and 'defending himself by attacking' is pure speculation, you know that eh?

Of course. But 'pure speculation' is no better than believing the biased testimony of a possible criminal who claims that Martin jumped him for no reason. And it's funny, Z's story has actually changed a few times since all this started.

Also, how would they "see" the gun, eh @Altaru! lolz! Eagle-eyes!

You're equating seeing a relatively large piece of metal in someone's hand to seeing someone's lips moving during a fight in the rain?

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21918 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:45:13 PM
And if someone's on top of you, pounding dents in your skull, it can be pretty hard to yell for help. Every hit can knock the wind out of you, disorient you, stop your brain ticking for a second... Just getting air in and out of your lungs takes top priority over using that air for anything specific.


Wait, I thought Z had "no reason" to feel his life was threatened? lolz! Which is it?

M 'seeing the gun' and 'defending himself by attacking' is pure speculation, you know that eh?

Your entire arguement sees to be (to me) that Z should have stayed in his car. This is not unreasonable! However it's not a reason for M to assault Z either.

Now, if a witness should come out and say they SAW Z threaten M with the gun before the fight? THAT is entirely different! But until it happens, fantasy.

Also, how would they "see" the gun, eh @Altaru! lolz! Eagle-eyes!

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:14:51 PM
So we are to believe that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, beating him AND screaming for help?

If Martin saw the gun, then that wouldn't be unreasonable.

If you knew your opponent had a gun, would you wait until you subdued them then calmly go door to door asking the neighbors for assistance?

And if someone's on top of you, pounding dents in your skull, it can be pretty hard to yell for help. Every hit can knock the wind out of you, disorient you, stop your brain ticking for a second... Just getting air in and out of your lungs takes top priority over using that air for anything specific.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:05:09 PM
It is however, evidence.

It's evidence that Z was getting his ass kicked.

It doesn't say anything one way or another about whether he started it or not.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:55:09 PM
There is NOT ONE recording of Trayvon's voice in existance?

Maybe, maybe not.

I've been around longer than Martin was, and I don't know of more than two recordings of my voice, one of which I didn't know was recorded until I randomly discovered it on Youtube, and the other being one of those voice-recording picture frames I got for my mother... when I was twelve.

Hell, I don't know of anything beyond a few school pictures that prove I existed over the course of about six years.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21918 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:30:20 PM
Yes @kitteh9: The father has "changed his mind" also, after discussing it with lawyers...

So we are to believe that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, beating him AND screaming for help? While Z was silently getting pounded?
Hummmm.

@Altaru: Now you're getting trolly, eh?
I never once said it 'proved' anything. It is however, evidence.
Standing a few feet away, one can easily see who's yelling and who's not.

There is NOT ONE recording of Trayvon's voice in existance? No phone messages, no video recordings? ZERO?
Unlikely.

So, yes! For all WE know he sounds just like James Earl Jones! Or Kermit The Frog, or Porky Pig...

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 4:30:00 PM
For all we know he had a deep, bass voice!

THAT'S FUNNY, 'cause, you know, HE'S DEAD AND ALL! So I guess we'll REALLY never know his side of the story, will we? And unless someone comes forth with a recording of his voice, we'll never know what he sounded like, now will we?

After all, it's not like he'll suddenly appear in court to testify. It's not like he has any rights to a fair trial regarding whether he started it or not. He's dead. All his rights were taken away with a single bullet from an armed man who followed him and suspected him of wrong-doing when he was just trying to go home with his skittles and tea.

And his killer would have gotten off clean without so much as a proper investigation because of those stupid SYG laws and a controversial prosecutor, had it not been for the public outrage.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 4:25:11 PM
It's fairly easy to tell the difference between a grey hoodie and a red & black sweater.

So now you can see voices by the clothes the person is wearing?

This guy must have had some super-vision to SEE the voices over their heads, wearing their clothes, and only one screaming for help. Amazing!

Maybe they should put this witness's vision to the test, if it's so amazing.

Again, one person being on top of the other proves NOTHING about who started it anyway.

kitteh9lives
Female, 70 & Over, Eastern US
 1285 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 4:17:12 PM
Actually 5cats according to The affadavit filed Wednesday by prosecutors During this time period witnesses heard numerous calls for help and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police. Trayvon Martin's mother has reviewed the 911 calls and has identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin's voice.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21918 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:58:57 PM
"...an anonymous witness..."

The police know who he is, so he's not some nut who 'claims' to have seen something! He is an eye-witness, perhaps the only one.

It's fairly easy to tell the difference between a grey hoodie and a red & black sweater. He was close by, not blocks away. Yes I've seen the maps & such, it wasn't 'pitch black' ok?

Of course Z is 'biased', duh! OR he may be telling the truth, duh! We may or may not ever know.

Trayvon's Father said it wasn't Trayvon yelling, ok?
Unless those who heard the yelling, or we who listened to various 911 calls, knew both men, it's silly to claim "it sounds like Trayvon"! For all we know he had a deep, bass voice!

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:28:41 PM
I'm certain the cops took ALL of this into account when they decided to NOT charge Z in the first place.

AS A MATTER OF FACT...

The homicide detective that first investigated the case DID want to have Z arrested and charged. It was the prosecutor that decided not to.

A prosecutor who's been involved in more controversial cases than just this one, from what I've read.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:22:45 PM
But Z never said he hit M, so...

But Z's also on trial for KILLING SOMEONE. His account is about as unbiased as Fox News.

It was 7:15 pm, and ever hear of streetlights?

It was raining, which decreases visibility, and the fight didn't go down on a street. It went down on a walk-way between buildings. Have you even looked at maps of the area?

And you're still relying on an anonymous witness making claims that he saw which one was yelling, against the other people who heard what was going on and said it didn't sound like Z.

And even if it was Z yelling... What does that prove? That he was losing a fight. Not whether he instigated it or not.

Like I said, I'mma go start a bar fight, hit the ground, yell for help, and shoot the other guy. I yelled for help, right? That means I had the right to "defend myself."

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 21918 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:31:13 PM
@FatNinja: Appeals come after a conviction or aquittal, not before the trial! lolz!

@Altaru: I'd like to know that too! But Z never said he hit M, so...
Also: The guy lived in the house right where the fight was happening! He went out, saw them fighting just a few feet away! Not 'miles off in the distance' OK? Get it? Literally in his back yard! It was 7:15 pm, and ever hear of streetlights?
I'm certain the cops took ALL of this into account when they decided to NOT charge Z in the first place.

No 'facts' have changed here, only politics.

Fatninja01
Male, 18-29, Australia
 24108 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:02:21 PM
charged... but their will be an appeal!

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:56:08 PM
One thing I would like to know is if Martin had any injuries or marks (beside the obvious, of course).

They haven't released that information, if they even have it. A good medical examiner would be able to find evidence of the struggle on Martin's body that could have changed the case.

That's assuming, of course, that they actually went ahead and examined the body before passing it along, which doesn't seem likely considering they didn't actually investigate the case at first.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:38:49 PM
Quite. No law is perfect.

See those statistics though?

The crime rates didn't suddenly spike down with the passing of the SYG law in Florida. They were already going down at a pretty steady rate.

But the "justifiable homicide" rate tripled.

Hmm...

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:36:39 PM
She "thinks" Trayvon was pushed, but a witness would SEE one way or the other.

Yeah, but there are no eye witnesses to that one way or another, except Z who, basic self-preservation logic would hold, is going to cover his ass.

auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 9567 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:33:31 PM
"After all, all I have to do is end up on the ground, yell for help and I can get away with the perfect murder!"

Quite. No law is perfect.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:29:14 PM
Plus, if yelling for help justified shooting someone, then golly gee I'm off to get in a bar fight.

After all, all I have to do is end up on the ground, yell for help and I can get away with the perfect murder!

MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
 2597 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:27:40 PM
@MacGuffin Also, why don't you actually go read the Florida "Stand your ground" law before arrogantly correct others. You might find that some of the stuff you have been saying is inaccurate.

Why don't you show it to me, and prove me wrong?

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:26:52 PM
Ok? But one witness DID SEE them and said it was Zimmerman yelling.

Well call that guy Hawkeye, cause apparently he could read lips during a fight from a distance in the dark to figure out which was was yelling better than any of the other people who heard the same yells and decided they were the yells of a younger man.

MacGuffin
Female, 30-39, Europe
 2597 Posts
Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:25:58 PM
Wait a sec. Why are you questioning the angle of the photo, and the race of the court officers?

Just curious.


I'm questioning it, because I see using predominantly black escorting officers as a rather cynical way for a legal system that's had to be embarrassed by public pressure into acting in this case, to show that the allegations of racism that were levelled at authorities for failing to act in the first place are unjustified.

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