 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5252 Posts
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Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:25:48 AM
@PopCap & uatme:
You've never heard of a percentage ratio? |
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 intrigid
Male, 18-29, Canada
877 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:28:10 PM
WTF? How old is this? Last I checked, USA's figure was over 100%. |
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 PopCap
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
229 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:08:47 PM
No, but 26:67.7 is. |
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uatme
Male, 18-29, Canada
790 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:57:12 PM
% is not a ratio so wtf does this even mean? |
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uatme
Male, 18-29, Canada
790 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:55:13 PM
china has dept? to who? |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:14:45 PM
@HolyGod: If you know how to use google then you should first try with "continuum fallacy". According to your treasury, China owns almost $1.2 trillion in treasuries, which is around 7.7% of your gross debt. That's a lot. Quibbling doesn't invalidate my argument. You should stop using logical fallacies when you argue. |
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 lawndartsftw
Male, 40-49, Canada
1815 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:16:17 PM
Wow, that is unprofessional.... |
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 Fatninja01
Male, 18-29, Australia
23995 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:22:08 PM
wow |
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 HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2888 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:17:44 AM
@patchgrabber
I can use google too. But apparently I have better comprehension. You might want to re-read things before you argue. They own 8% of public debt. Public debt is about 70% of total debt. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:42:49 AM
@HolyGod: Well, it's more like 8%, not less than 6, and almost a tenth of your country's debt owned by another country (of which you can't stand, I might add) is no laughing matter. Yes your economies are intertwined, but if they are dependent on your consumerism then you are dependent on their Renminbi. |
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 simbha
Male, 30-39, Southern US
396 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:42:45 AM
@Patch: Yes, that's why I state the 100% figure for the US to be comparable to the 64% figure for China. It doesn't change [what I assume to be] Kiernan's point in the interview/book (which I haven't read), but I believe it's a more intellectually honest comparison. |
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simbha
Male, 30-39, Southern US
396 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:40:39 AM
@Patch: Here are two sources. I happen to disagree with the figures provided by Gordon Chang in the first one, but I agree with the overarching statement that China's debt is far higher than it's indicated...
Forbes article, February 26 2012
Bloomber article, December 28 2011 |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:39:24 AM
@simbha: If what you say is true then it would lend credence to what AJ said. Also, the way they are calculating debt to GDP ratio in this instance is by only counting foreign-held debt. By your own government's admission, if you were to include internal debt to form a gross national debt, you would add about a third of GDP and your debt to GDP ratio would be about 100% |
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simbha
Male, 30-39, Southern US
396 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:30:23 AM
@Patchgrabber: Internal debt held by both the Chinese public and the PBOC is not reported by the PRC's government. As such, it's not included in official estimates of sovereign debt ratios. The external debt held by other nations and external investors is verifiable and thus reported; it stands at around 32% currently. (The discrepancy between this figure and the 34% from my earlier post is that a small amount is reported by the PRC, although this is known not to include the two categories I've indicated above.) I don't claim that my 64% figure is 'right', but it's what our chief economic adviser provides and what our futurist uses in developing forward-looking environmental analysis. |
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simbha
Male, 30-39, Southern US
396 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:24:50 AM
This isn't photoshopped. Becoming China's Bitch is the title of a book by Peter Kiernan.
I'm not sure how they're calculating debt-to-GDP. Most figures indicate that the US's ratio is close to 100%, while China's official figures are around 34%. As AuburnJunky noted, the latter is understated - although China likely has far less debt relative to its GDP than the US does - that 34% figure is external debt, which is verifiable.
My own estimate would place it around 64%, but it's hard to have a good feel for what the actual debt is, partly because of ambiguity in the f/x rate. |
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 Zach82
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
316 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:13:24 AM
67% of GDP is actually a rather middling level of debt compared to most other industrialized nations. It's ain't good, but it isn't the end of the world nuther. |
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HolyGod
Male, 30-39, Western US
2888 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:08:22 AM
I love that people talk about China taking over the USA.
First of all they own less than 6% of total debt. That's like saying Shell is going to come get my house because my gas card is about 6% of my total debt.
Second of all almost a quarter of China's exports are consumed by the U.S. Their economy can't sustain itself without our consumerism. They have every interest in doing anything they can to keep our economy and buying power as strong as possible.
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 pmarren
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
3379 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:07:39 AM
I've been China's bitch ever since I tried the Kung Pao Chicken with a side of egg rolls. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:54:15 AM
China has a whole bunch of hidden debt, and their GDP is inflated.
Source or speculation? |
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 auburnjunky
Male, 30-39, Southern US
8667 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:48:10 AM
Well aside from the obvious photoshop, China has a whole bunch of hidden debt, and their GDP is inflated.
There are whole cities that are uninhabited, but the sheer fact that the city is there raises the countries worth.
See? There are several of these "ghost cities" in China. |
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patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5252 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:28:16 AM
Well, they aren't wrong. Although the title is rather colloquial. If those stats are accurate, a 67.7% debt to GDP ratio is pretty bad. |
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 kim...
Female, 13-17, Australia
180 Posts
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 7:20:11 AM
Link: This Is What You're Missing On TV, Part 300 [Pic] [Rate Link] - Whoa, CNN's leaning way more to the left than usual. What's up with that, CNN? |
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