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Tattoo Of The Day With A Hidden Message [Pic]

Hits: 22755 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: Funny | Added by: Fatninja01
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:54:53 AM
@dan007:'Careful, when you assume you know what someone believes you are usually wrong.' I apologise for assuming that you followed the dogma of Christianity

aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:52:59 AM
@dang007: So, in your evidence for belief you must discount the bible as being an unreliable source. After all, how do you know what god expects of you today and what is only meant to be adhered to in the specific age it was written. Does that mean 'Thou shalt not kill' may be irrelevant now?
For a supreme being who's omnipotent, omnipresent and infallible, it's a pretty poor guide for life that hasn't been kept up to date for 1000 yrs.

aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:46:14 AM
dang007: 'I would extend by previous statement to other religions as well'. So your belief struture can accomodate Christianity where belief is in a single supreme being the creator of everything, shintoism where belief is in a number of deities two of whom created Paradise now called Japan and buddhism which completely denies a creator. And you cant see a contradiction?

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 9:25:33 AM
"In the strict sense of how we normally define Science yes. But my whole point is that Science in NOT everything."

Science is not everything, it is however the best way we as humans have figured out what is actually true, instead of believing other peoples assertions. Science whittles away fiction from fact to get the answer. Religion just makes up answers that feel good at the time and the proof of this is all the different religious viewpoints just in Christianity, you say that this is god reveling himself differently to different people when the most likely answer is people just make it up as they go along.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 6:01:16 AM
>>>I was pointing out that your description of voodoo does appear to break one of the ten commandments yet you say it does not contradict your beliefs.<<

The ten commandments were given to a group of people that had just escaped slavery in a foreign land. It was what God expected of those people at that point in time. Careful, when you assume you know what someone believes you are usually wrong.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:58:46 AM
>>Yes, you said that - 'I believe that the experiences that others have with other religions are possible and do not contradict my beliefs' and you cited voodoo as a religion where a supreme being is worshipped. From that, I assume<<

So No I did NOT say that you assumed it. I would extend by previous statement to other religions as well.

aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:26:39 AM
@dang007: 'I know what I understand that God wants me to behave. I really do not know what he expects from others.'
I was pointing out that your description of voodoo does appear to break one of the ten commandments yet you say it does not contradict your beliefs.

aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Thursday, February 09, 2012 12:20:32 AM
@dang007: 'Did I say that somewhere?'
Yes, you said that - 'I believe that the experiences that others have with other religions are possible and do not contradict my beliefs' and you cited voodoo as a religion where a supreme being is worshipped. From that, I assume that you dont think religions which don't recognise a single supreme being aren't possible and do contradict your beliefs.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:56:11 AM
>>>What if the true believers of the ones you have tried were to say "you didn't do it right", how would you respond? When you understand why you reject every other religious belief as false you will understand why I reject yours.<<<

I would respond that it is certainly possible. But then again I have more than one data point as I repeat the experiment every day. AND AGAIN I am open to the possibility that God is reveling himself differently to different people.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:53:49 AM
>>>Because science is a process of observation, testing, re-testing, peer review, re-testing again. In science there is incentive to get the answer right, and if the science is wrong there is incentive to correct it. The mass of a proton which has been scientifically proven through tests and re-tests, peer reviews of the evidence is not even comparable to just accepting someones experience AND their perception of said experience because they said it was true, especially when that experience is supernatural. <<<

Again you miss my point. YOU did not do all these experiments yet YOU believe you know the mass of a proton. You base that BELIEF on what OTHERS told you. Thus you are supporting your belief on the reports of others, some of which are contradictory. I am saying that this is similar (exactly like no) to the "evidence" that caused me to initially accept my faith, actually perform the experiment myself.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:50:53 AM
>>>I would also point out that evidence that can't be shared is not really evidence.<<<

In the strict sense of how we normally define Science yes. But my whole point is that Science in NOT everything.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 11:50:03 AM
>>>So as long as the religion is monotheistic, you're ok with it, but any polytheist (Shinto, Mormonism, forms of Hinduism) or atheist (forms of Buddhism) you're not?<<<

Did I say that somewhere?

>>>Also, how does the worship of Iwa sit with 'Thou shall not make unto you any graven image..Thou shall not bow down thyself to them' I thought that was a fundamental tennant of Christianity?<<<

I know what I understand that God wants me to behave. I really do not know what he expects from others.

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:40:58 AM
"I do not know why or even if it is true, that God revealed himself differently to these people, but I am open to the possibility."

I am open to the possibility as well, but my experience tells me that when humans don't understand something (especially primitive humans) the tendency is for us to make up an answer (religion) rather than to say 'I don't know' and figure it out (science). The point that there is no religion that can prove they are superior to the others tells me that it is most likely made up.

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:30:52 AM
"But I have tried some of the others. At least to the extent possible. My experiences are that the faith I have provides results to me that others do not."

What if the true believers of the ones you have tried were to say "you didn't do it right", how would you respond? When you understand why you reject every other religious belief as false you will understand why I reject yours.

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:25:03 AM
"However, many of the facts of science I believe because others have told me they conducted an experiment. The mass of a proton for example. Why would I believe them, when I have not done the experiment myself, and not believe others about their experiences?"

Because science is a process of observation, testing, re-testing, peer review, re-testing again. In science there is incentive to get the answer right, and if the science is wrong there is incentive to correct it. The mass of a proton which has been scientifically proven through tests and re-tests, peer reviews of the evidence is not even comparable to just accepting someones experience AND their perception of said experience because they said it was true, especially when that experience is supernatural. Extrordinary claims require extrodinary evidence.

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 9:09:50 AM
"Let me be clear. You can not have my experience."

You are correct and I cannot deny you have had them, however I was referring to the anecdotal evidence you accept from others that agree with you religious view. First you indicated those peoples experiences were part of the evidence for your faith and then said the evidence cannot be shared.I would also point out that evidence that can't be shared is not really evidence.

aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 8:50:05 AM
dang007: 'I believe that the experiences that others have with other religions are possible and do not contradict my beliefs. Voodo for example'
So as long as the religion is monotheistic, you're ok with it, but any polytheist (Shinto, Mormonism, forms of Hinduism) or atheist (forms of Buddhism) you're not?
Also, how does the worship of Iwa sit with 'Thou shall not make unto you any graven image..Thou shall not bow down thyself to them' I thought that was a fundamental tennant of Christianity?

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:00:34 AM
One final point about other religions. I believe that the experiences that others have with other religions are possible and do not contradict my beliefs. Voodo for example:

Vodouisants believe in a supreme being called Bondye, but also worship many lesser spirits, as the lwa. This belief is held in several West African religions, such as that of the Yoruba, Odinani, and Vodun. When it came in contact with Roman Catholicism, the supreme being was associated with the Judeo-Christian God, the lwa becoming the saints.

I do not know why or even if it is true, that God revealed himself differently to these people, but I am open to the possibility.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:56:46 AM
>>>There are many people who swear by their personal experiences and those they are associated with the voo-doo is real, or Islam is the only path to god, or that the Hindu religion is correct. Do you think those beliefs are just as valid as yours? If not why, they are making the same arguements for their beliefs you make for yours.<<<<

But I have tried some of the others. At least to the extent possible. My experiences are that the faith I have provides results to me that others do not.

>> Does that mean god failed me and countless others. It is not honest to give him credit for the converts if you don't give him blame for the failiers.<<<

We agree and this is still a big issue for me as I grow to understand my God's will. There are many many things I do not fully understand. However, I do not fully understand quantum mechanics and I do not claim to understand everything there is to know about chemistry, but I believ

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 545 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:50:40 AM
>>>You are contradicting yourself, in an earlier post you said part of the reason you believe was because of other people expiriences they shared with you as well as your own, now you are saying the evidence can't be shared.<<<

Let me be clear. You can not have my experience. I can tell you what my experience is or was. In science one can go the next step and demonstrate the effect. "See look if I turn the switch the light bulb lights up." With God these experiences are internal. I can tell you all day long that I feel different, etc. but you can not see it only take my word, or not, for it. It is this is the difference to which I was referring.

However, many of the facts of science I believe because others have told me they conducted an experiment. The mass of a proton for example. Why would I believe them, when I have not done the experiment myself, and not believe others about their experiences? When faced with conflicting rep

aikiman
Male, 40-49, Europe
 255 Posts
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 12:27:05 AM
@dang007: 'However, I can point to others, many many others, that report a different result from their experiments.'
And I can point to approximately 350 million people who believe in budhism due to their 'experiments'. Why don't you believe their evidence?

x13purplesta
Female, 30-39, Canada
 235 Posts
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:37:02 PM
Nice tattoo...and if you don't like what it says you can just put your own words in with the leaves. I like it as is, though :)

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 7:29:51 PM
"What I am saying that it is hard for me to understand that given that millions of people have reported their experiences, many atheist have converted, and that most people at least believe they have free will, that anyone would reject the idea out of hand."

There are many people who swear by their personal experiences and those they are associated with the voo-doo is real, or Islam is the only path to god, or that the Hindu religion is correct. Do you think those beliefs are just as valid as yours? If not why, they are making the same arguements for their beliefs you make for yours.

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 7:25:08 PM
"Now who is being intellectually dishonest. "I don't understand so it must not be true."

By the way some atheists have "converted" and do now believe. So apparently God does now what it takes to make an atheists beleive....."

First, I am not saying its not true, I am saying there is no solid reason to believe it is true, there is a large difference.

Second, there are many people who have been devote theists that de-converted, many of whom were preachers. Does that mean god failed me and countless others. It is not honest to give him credit for the converts if you don't give him blame for the failiers.

Otto67
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 438 Posts
Tuesday, February 07, 2012 7:19:19 PM
"This data could be shared and looked at by others. The evidence for god can by its very nature can not be so shared. It is a personal experience."

You are contradicting yourself, in an earlier post you said part of the reason you believe was because of other people expiriences they shared with you as well as your own, now you are saying the evidence can't be shared.

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