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Lee Doren On The Drug War: A message To Both Sides

Hits: 9780 | Rating: (2.2) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: Cajun247
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 5992 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 4:14:52 PM
@Student_Law:

"Squrlz4Sale: addiction and drug trade is an international issue."

So what? I still want you to be U.S. president. So there.

(BTW, I'm NOT making fun of you. You talk more intelligently on this issue than anyone on this side of the pond.)

cityncolour
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 379 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 2:37:16 PM
@Angelmassb
soo... let's see if i got this straight. your solution is that society just "stops" doing what it has been doing since the dawn of man..?

...seems legit.

DingDingDong
Male, 30-39, Western US
 1501 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 1:54:33 PM
I totally agree. I'm a social liberal (let people do whatever they want to their own bodies, as long as they don't do significant harm to others); and a fiscal conservative (spend less, smaller government). This makes me a libertarian, Ron Paul 2012!!!

Fatninja01
Male, 18-29, Australia
 24108 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 11:55:45 AM
Drugs are bad... M kay!

aroc91
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 150 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 8:15:17 AM
I have absolutely no problem with saying that people concerned that drug use will rise following legalization are retarded. The complete opposite has happened so far in countries that have legalized drugs.

thubanstar
Female, 40-49, Southern US
 800 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 7:58:02 AM
"So, the laws against drugs aren't turning ordinary citizens into criminals--today at least. If you're an ordinary citizen, you know that doing drugs is illegal, and you make the choice to start using (NOTE: The choice to continue using is often controlled by addition!)"

1. Most drug use I know of is for substances (pot, acid, 'shrooms) which do not normally "addict" people chemically. I'm sure everyone on here knows people who have dabbled and done just fine.

2. Most people on here probably know someone who is otherwise a law-abiding citizen who scoffs at the law on this one issue.


patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5597 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 6:46:02 AM
Appeal to moderation. This guy is a fence-sitter.

"What if drug use rose after legalization, what would you (liberals) do?"

Um...the same thing we do with alcohol? Yeah, not all drugs are great, and at least he got most of the "consequences of the black market" stuff right, but to say that drug use will rise is just an appeal to probability. There has never to my knowledge been a place that has decriminalized drugs and seen an increase in use. The only increases that have been noticed in the first few years after decriminalization can easily be attributed to the dark figure. So implying the result of actual testing holds less weight than baseless speculation is insulting.

zombunny
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2524 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 6:21:59 AM
"How can we expect the stupid masses to restrain themselves when the illegality is all that is keeping them from doing so now."

Most of the people who can't "restrain themselves" when it comes to controlled substances will use them anyway, whether it's legal or not. Your argument is invalid.

zombunny
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 2524 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 6:18:52 AM
"Pretty sure making Drugs legal in Canada and the U.S. would not change anything for Mexico. It would change things in our countries for sure, but won't do squat for other people in other countries. So bringing Mexico into the discussion was not needed."

Lol what. Mexican drug cartels smuggle drugs into the US and Canada. That's, like, their whole deal. If drugs were legal here we wouldn't need criminals to bring them into our country.

Student_Law
Male, 30-39, Europe
 966 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 6:09:03 AM
Squrlz4Sale: addiction and drug trade is an international issue.

EgalM
Male, 30-39, Canada
 1710 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 5:39:03 AM
Pretty sure making Drugs legal in Canada and the U.S. would not change anything for Mexico. It would change things in our countries for sure, but won't do squat for other people in other countries. So bringing Mexico into the discussion was not needed.

Rick_S
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 3097 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 4:45:01 AM
The difference between the drug war and prohibition is that before prohibition, alcohol was legal. People were able to drink one day, and not the next. In the drug war, everyone alive today (in the US) has lived in a society where drugs are illegal.

So, the laws against drugs aren't turning ordinary citizens into criminals--today at least. If you're an ordinary citizen, you know that doing drugs is illegal, and you make the choice to start using (NOTE: The choice to continue using is often controlled by addition!).

thubanstar
Female, 40-49, Southern US
 800 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 4:40:51 AM
Also, no one is looking at the past and what happened during alcohol proabition. Looking back further...

This country was founded and settled by people who could lay their hands on any kind of drug (that they had back then, opium, hash, laudinum) and yet we grew and prospered as a nation.

But during proabition the gangsters got richer and things got a lot more violent. Added to that, it made ordinary people law breakers which is not good for the law or the morale of this country.

Then they made alcohol legal again. Big surprise, it broke the gangs ushering in a much more peaceful era.

Think about it.

GlooStikk
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1298 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 4:33:13 AM
did anyone else read his name as Dee-Lorean? I see what I want

Squrlz4Sale
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 5992 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 4:19:10 AM
STUDENT_LAW for US President 2012.

Campaign slogan: "Save America from Americans."

Student_Law
Male, 30-39, Europe
 966 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 4:00:08 AM
Addiction is a medical issue by law in Norway, and has been for years. Possession is still formally illegal, but police hardly focus on users - since defined as ill. They focus all resources on the salesmen.

This has had a few positive effects: it's easier and more acceptable to get help for drug addiction. If you have a job, and tell your employer that you have a drug problem you are legally ill and will get paid sick leave while you are in rehabilitation. Rehabilitation is expensive, most clinics are private so most employers choose to pay for it. In some cases they are obliged to.

Our experience with making addiction a legal reason for illness, alongside with pneumonia and cancer is positive, but it has little effect if a proper health care system isn't there to provide treatment.

In conclusion; recognition of addiction as an illness, and decriminalization of drug use is effective, but only if treatment is provided as well.

Selous
Male, 30-39, Australia
 1205 Posts
Monday, January 30, 2012 1:40:08 AM
the proble with his arguement is no one cares about mexicans

a country such as the US, that has some of the harshest drug laws in the western world, also has some of the highest % of usage in the entire world, either the US follows the asian nations and starts executing, public flogging and life time jail sentencing for simple posession OR they follow a more tolerant regime such as used in the netherland where drug usage is one of the lowest in the western world

Finanthimus
Male, 30-39, Australia
 12 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:22:07 PM
This dude needs a line.

Zymotical
Male, 18-29, Western US
 199 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:28:44 PM
@AnwarNova I'm pretty sure that is just a characterization conservatives make about liberals to fear-monger anyone that can actually see how ineffective the war on drugs has been thus far, as said liberals are likely able to differentiate between marijuana and heroin rather than treat them as effectively indistinguishable in the eyes of the federal law.

From my standpoint, labels like liberal and conservative are the real problem creating an adversarial attitude toward those with differing opinions. Rather than find a middle ground that both can agree on, politicians just dig in deeper and wait until the opposition caves and you get everything you wanted and blame the opposition for the lack of compromise.

America is not about getting your way, but coming to a compromise. If none are willing to make concessions then nothing will be accomplished.

CaptainPabst
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1253 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:12:53 PM
Why can't we just look at "drugs" for what they are, all different. Some drugs are medicines and some ruin lives but it is certainly not easy for me to put them all under one umbrella.

AnwarNova
Male, 18-29, Western US
 2089 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:41:43 PM
I don't know any liberals that think that drugs are "great".

Zymotical
Male, 18-29, Western US
 199 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:00:36 PM
@swoop408 Name-calling is completely unproductive and a reflexive response for those who disagree, but have no solid arguments to support their side.

Although you have all the right to your opinions as I have mine, however, one need not go any further than the comments on this post for evidence supporting Poe's Law.

I'm personally against the war on drugs, for both fiscal and social reasons.

Zymotical
Male, 18-29, Western US
 199 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:43:46 PM
Insane people also use the internet, as hard as that may be to comprehend. More specifically those that do not have the capacity to apply logical thinking and give a well-reasoned argument to support their viewpoint.

To be more succinct, those holding an inflexible position on a subject in the face of contradictory evidence are, in my opinion, insane.

swoop408
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1768 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:39:25 PM
Zymotical, you're a drating moron.

jtrebowski
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 3240 Posts
Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:03:27 PM
@zymotical and skypirate: It's been discussed before, but we need some sort of universal sarcasm font.
Oh, and zymotical.."that no sane human could reasonably hold such a positiion"...um..are you new to the internets? You'd be surprised.

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