 Mooseprint
Male, 30-39, Australia
 3 Posts
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Wednesday, January 18, 2012 6:12:50 AM
"we've also been the biggest bully as well. So that analogy doesn't fit."
On the contrary, it's exactly what I meant by "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't." Either you step up for those who are catching hell and in turn get branded a bully, or leave them to get whaled on and lose everyone's respect for not weighing in in a crisis.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke
Good to see we agree on Hitch's main point in the end. |
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mcboozerilla
Male, 30-39, Europe
649 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 4:13:33 PM
Simplistic message is simplistic. |
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 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 4:11:44 PM
There is no way you can placate Islamism and maintain your freedoms is the main point Hitch builds to in the latter part.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 4:08:41 PM
As for the role of a superpower: When bullies start picking on the weaker kids everyone looks to the biggest kid in school to sort them out. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So you may as well be damned for bringing freedom and democracy, and not for giving in to coercion and oppression.
First of all we maybe the biggest kid school but we've also been the biggest bully as well. So that analogy doesn't fit, as we've spreading tyranny far more than democracy. Secondly, even if we really were everyone's hero then just like your typical bully he's only going to meaner when a third party gets involved. |
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Mooseprint
Male, 30-39, Australia
3 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 3:50:55 PM
@Cajun247 There is no way you can placate Islamism and maintain your freedoms is the main point Hitch builds to in the latter part. Forget wars. You can't even raise fair criticism without making an eternal enemy.
As for the role of a superpower: When bullies start picking on the weaker kids everyone looks to the biggest kid in school to sort them out. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. So you may as well be damned for bringing freedom and democracy, and not for giving in to coercion and oppression. |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 11:53:47 AM
@QualityJay
It is the fact that we've been policing the world that is the cause of the 9-11 attacks. |
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QualityJay
Male, 18-29, Southern US
303 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 11:49:51 AM
Is this guy crazy? We all know that we as Americans are responsible for policing the world. We know what is best.
I mean, it's the way it has been for the past 60 years so why change it right??
There is no possible way our involvement in other countries would cause them to want to do us harm because we only do good...
Also, if another country flexes it's muscle we have to too, you know. It's a pride thing.
Ron Paul is so naive. Blow back does not exist.
Our government only wants what is best for us, not themselves. It is why I trust the fed government fully and would like them to handle stuff like my retirement, healthcare, educating my child, loaning me money, etc. They can do a much better job than regular citizens at a local level. |
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 patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
5264 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 9:25:07 AM
 |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 8:22:19 AM
@Mooseprint
That video of yours only makes our point, our involvement was the main influence behind the attacks against us. Ergo blowback. |
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Mooseprint
Male, 30-39, Australia
3 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 6:59:28 AM
To illustrate just how naive Paul's position is, how about lets hand over the mic to the ghost of comrade Hitchens.
http://youtu.be/axHR8AOxxkc |
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 Izaq
Male, 30-39, Europe
175 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 6:29:37 AM
Wow! A Republican politician that doesn´t sound either like a religious nutcase or a completely retarded warmongering dimwit!
I´m impressed! |
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 madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
6406 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 4:40:43 AM
can someone please explain what the Nigerian Catholics did to cause Muslims to blow up their churches on Christmas Eve killing 35 of them?
------------
So in OldOllies world we're supposed to be the protective force for all religions around the world? OK then let me know when you'll be willing to go to war for church of Scientology... |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 4:25:22 AM
@NOMAD
That and the MiG-19 makes up two-thirds of their air force. |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Monday, January 16, 2012 3:10:00 AM
@QueenZira
To do so would mean throwing their trade relations with us out the window, which the Chinese HEAVILY rely on.
@OldOllie
Put it this way: if the victim kept fu<king around with the cat the former who'd then get clawed by the latter, would you not blame the victim? It's called blowback, and those church are an unfortunate extension of the violence. |
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 -NOMAD-
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
18 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:43:20 PM
@jtrebowski
Then the South Koreans would defeat the inferior forces of the North, decisively. The North Koreans still use the Mig21, which was from 1959 for God's sake. |
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 OldOllie
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
8727 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:29:59 PM
If 9/11 was our fault, can someone please explain what the Nigerian Catholics did to cause Muslims to blow up their churches on Christmas Eve killing 35 of them? |
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 QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
1763 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:06:47 PM
And it doesn't help that China has recently been holding military exercises in the South China Sea (I'm sure that's the one) parading around like a barnyard c.ock, showing some strength.
Naturally we responded by building a new base in Australia, because nothing scares the Chinese quite like well tanned, crocodile Dundee-esque Americans. It's a flash point alright. |
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QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
1763 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 7:58:23 PM
Cajun, imagine if China wanted to become more aggressive in the region and helped N Korea to topple S Korea, from thereon out targeting Japan and the Philippines. This of course would be a giant middle finger to us and we'd have to get involved, and then where would it go from there?
Is Russia going to back up it's buddy? They're another country with whom it's awkward to sit across from in the cafeteria at the UN. Of course this is all worst case scenario, but still... |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:10:32 PM
@QueenZira
China's got North Korea on a short leash. Me other people here have pointed out how incredibly boxed in the Kim regime is, so I don't see how it's a "different ballgame". |
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QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
1763 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:13:47 PM
Guys aren't you forgetting a certain important someone in geopolitics here? Remember that China plays the scowling parent to N Korea's apes#it toddler, get them involved and it's a whole different ballgame... |
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jamie76
Male, 30-39, Western US
2249 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 2:19:11 PM
Ron Paul for president! you want REAL change en vote for him.
you want pretend change where everything looks exactly the same and if anything does change it just gets worse, vote Obama or for any other candidate.
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 Stonardsftw
Male, 18-29, Western US
319 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:10:52 PM
@jtrebowski
Not even talking about under a Paul presidency. I was stating what is, not what will be or might be. If they attacked right now, they'd be bombed. If we pulled out our troops half a year ago and they attacked now, they'd be bombed. They know this, they won't attack because of it.
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:21:14 AM
This is not a theory this is based on actual intelligence.
So...the idea is to wait until an unspeakable attack has already occurred?
It is an unrealistic objective to ensure that armed conflict never happens again on this planet. That does not mean we shouldn't prepare nor we can't minimize the brutality of said conflict. |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:15:07 AM
@jtrebowski
You may have heard that the North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world in terms of manpower. Truth is those numbers don't mean much (if anything) without equipment and training which North Korea is glaringly lacking. Their soldiers spend most of their time farming rather than training. Their tanks sit in the garages with very little use and maintenance. Two-thirds of their air force consist of planes manufactured in the late 50s. All of these and the tremendous difficulty they face on a daily basis supplying their military comes from the fact that regularly their military budget is less than third of South Korea's. |
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 emmettyville
Female, 30-39, Australia
2723 Posts
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Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:12:11 AM
this guy could save you. Vote him in for gods sake. |
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