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Santorum Compares Same-Sex Marriage To Pologamy

Hits: 6801 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Ruffiana
Male, 30-39, Western US
 508 Posts
Wednesday, January 11, 2012 3:56:43 PM
I can't make a distinction between gay marriage and polygamy. I'm not sure how you could legally abridge gay marriage as a civil rights issue and not allow polygamy. It's all consenting adults. More to the point, I think it's a very bad idea fto try and craft legislation around the idea of 'love' as a requirement for marriage...so I can't see why we wouldn't allow two platonic friends of any gender to marry and receive all of the same rights and privelages as traditional marriage. And again, that would have to extend to polygamists.

And that's where the whole gay marriage debate becomes sticky for me. Not because I have personal issues with two gay people being in love, wanting to share their lives, and wanting to have the same sort of legal protections of that type of partnership. It becomes an issue of where do you draw the line and why? It's hard to argue that we should legalize gay marriage but not legalize platonic polygamist marriages as well.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:22:55 AM
@CrakrJak.

In any case, I've decided that you won't answer my questions about your relationship status because you are middle-aged, single, lonely and bitter.

So why should we all take relationship advice from someone who has been 40+ years on this earth without finding love?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:22:00 AM
@CrakrJak

"Gays don't procreate"

The planet's overpopulated. We're doing the species a favour.

"they are a DNA dead-end that promotes more DNA dead-ends"

See above. Planet is overpopulated. Fewer new people means more people survive in the long run.

"promiscuity"

We're asking to be able to get married. That's the opposite intention to being promiscuous.

"and bad values"

Like love and marriage? Those are bad values?

"Gays have a much higher incidence of drug and alcohol abuse"

So do most maligned and shunned minority groups. Heads up: treat a group of people like crap and they'll turn to drink and drugs to cope with it.

"and that is not conducive to a good society."

See above. Same answer.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Wednesday, January 11, 2012 6:16:59 AM
@CrakrJak

"The government recognizes that marriages create families and family units are special"

So couples who don't intend to have children, or who are infertile, should not get married? Is that your statement?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16725 Posts
Monday, January 09, 2012 3:29:13 PM
Musuko: Marriage is a privilege, not a right, that's why they are licensed. The government recognizes that marriages create families and family units are special. Families get tax breaks, families are valued in American society because they produce good citizens and promote good values.

Gays don't procreate, they are a DNA dead-end that promotes more DNA dead-ends, promiscuity, and bad values. Gays have a much higher incidence of drug and alcohol abuse and that is not conducive to a good society.

Celebs are not 'normal' either, Fame can warp people's minds and egos in ways that are hard to understand. Using them as some prime example of 'straightness' is facetious.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Monday, January 09, 2012 2:40:36 PM





Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Monday, January 09, 2012 9:56:40 AM
@CrakrJak.

And in any case, since when did being promiscuous mean you're not allowed to get married?

Promoscious straight people can get married, but promiscuous gay people cannot?

And let's not speak of "temporary" unions! That's hardly a preserve of homosexuality. Just look at the celebrity news recently (if you can bear it). Straight people have some pretty temporary unions too!

And finally, how on earth does it make sense to you to "punish" people for their promiscuity by banning them from the monogamous alternative?

Do you punish a fat man by banning him from eating salads?

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Monday, January 09, 2012 9:52:04 AM
@CrakrJak

"Musuko: The high rate of promiscuity within the gay community pretty much makes any 'union' between them temporary at best."

Does it really?

Two of my closest friends are a gay couple who have been together for 24 years now.

Have you had a relationship that's come anywhere close to that, CrakrJak?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16725 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 8:25:25 PM
Angilion: A few exceptions aside, the statistics remain true.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 7:14:14 PM
One of the IAB bugmonsters ate my URL, so here it is again:

alt.polyamory FAQ

If anyone thinks that QueenZira has a point, please read that and decide for yourself if it matches up with the misogynist slavery she's describing. Obviously it doesn't, but please check for yourself if you don't already know.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 7:05:37 PM
Just in case there's anyone else who doesn't know what 'polygamy' means but, unlike QueenZira, is capable of learning:

Polygamy is being married to more than one person at the same time (from poly, 'many', and gamos, 'marriage'). It's a sex-neutral term, obviously.

The parallel to the word 'polyandry' (from poly and andros, 'adult male person') would be polygyny (from poly and gyne, 'adult female person').

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:58:50 PM
Money quote: "So if polygamy (or the female equivalent polyandry) is disadvantageous to most of the sequestered sex and most of the mate sequestering sex, why should such systems survive?"


Oh, that's perfect. You're so ignorant that you're making it even easier for me to debunk and deride you than it is to debunk and deride most bigots.

Your "money quote" about polygamy is from someone who doesn't even know what 'polygamy' means!

Why do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Even CrakrJak at least manages to know what homosexuality is, even if his image of it is as wrong as your image of polygamy. You're even more wrong than CrakrJak, which is remarkable.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:54:11 PM
Musuko: The high rate of promiscuity within the gay community pretty much makes any 'union' between them temporary at best.


You haven't a clue. You're as bad as QueenZira.

The longest homosexual relationship that I happen to know of personally started over 30 years ago. That's hardly temporary and that's only amongst people I know personally (who, unsurprisingly, tend to be around my own age).

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 6:51:33 PM
[quote">5cats & Angilion about your lack of belief in the science that backs up gay people being normal and healthy and the utter lack of any science whatsoever that proves the same about polygamists.[/quote">

Do you even bother trying to read posts before belching out your irrational prejudices in reply? It appears that you don't, or else you would have known that I think that there should be no distinction made between homosexuality and heterosexuality, neither in law nor in social customs. The difference is trivial and irrelevant except when choosing a partner, so it's not a valid criterion for making a distinction. Any distinction, let alone differences in law.

You're a troll, a fool, or both. As well as a bigot, obviously.

If you ever want to learn anything about polyamory, I suggest starting with the nice and simple alt.polyamory FAQ:

ukulelemike
Male, 40-49, Western US
 129 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 3:27:09 PM
@QueenZira: Really, the Mormons gave it up, not because they were miserable in it, (the men were sure happy with it), but because they were threatened by the government. So, their god conveniently ended the 'eternal covenant' of polygamy. Just the same way he conveniently ended the ban on blacks being part of their priesthood when the US 'officially' ended racism. But many still practice polygamy, the fundamentalist Mormons who still follow Smith's original teachings.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16725 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:40:13 PM
Musuko: The high rate of promiscuity within the gay community pretty much makes any 'union' between them temporary at best.

why should the privacy of your relationship be protected when you support the invasion of the relationships of others?


I'm not invading anyone else's relationship, thus you shouldn't be trying to pry into mine.

Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
 2804 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:30:48 PM
@CrakrJak

"I could show you the much higher rates of the spread of STDs within the gay community"

So your solution to reducing the spread of STDs due to promiscuous sex within a community is to...deny them the right to marriage?

Does that really make sense to you?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16725 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 12:21:21 PM
QueenZira: I could show you the much higher rates of the spread of STDs within the gay community, but it's likely you'd reject that information, just like you've rejected what Angilion & 5Cats have said.

DeutschDude9
Male, 18-29, Western US
 475 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:53:52 AM
How about this : No Marriage. Problem solved.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:50:10 AM
I think it's pretty damning that even olde timey Mormons gave up polygamy becuase they themselves were so miserable under it. A situation so bad that it doesn't matter what the Prophet and (therefore God himself) said about the issue, Elder Brosef will no longer have 20 wives.

Seriously, you people who buy into this horsepucky are jokes, about as mind numbingly stupid as 5cats when he continues the throwing of the kitchen sink at me w/ the rest of the usual PIB argument suspects. You have not a leg to stand on, suck it up.

yoda141
Male, 18-29, S. America
 268 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:41:59 AM
Gay marriage is only like polygamy in the sense that religious nutjobs hate both.

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:31:33 AM
Angilion just because I've had enough of your incessant trolling & complete refusal to even reason over this entire false equivalence, important scientific stuff.
Money quote: "So if polygamy (or the female equivalent polyandry) is disadvantageous to most of the sequestered sex and most of the mate sequestering sex, why should such systems survive?"

QueenZira
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 2181 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:23:36 AM
5cats & Angilion about your lack of belief in the science that backs up gay people being normal and healthy and the utter lack of any science whatsoever that proves the same about polygamists.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 5:30:12 AM
Angilion don't be so obtuse. Pick up any holy book from the 3 great monotheisms and read about the worth of women, how they're treated. Get Real.


Marriage predates all of them, so they aren't the origin of marriage.

Marriage today doesn't have to be in accordance with a literalist interpretation of any of those religions.

Your lack of understanding is not my obtuseness.

And I'm still waiting for you to defend *your* completely irrational prejudice against those who desire to be enslaved. *Foot Tapping.*


Why should I defend *your* position? You made that position up. It has nothing to do with me.

You are opposed to adults being allowed to choose who they marry. I haven't made that up - you've stated it explicitly and repeatedly and you continue to do so. You "defend" it in a circular manner, stating only your own prejudices as support for your own prejudices.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 11029 Posts
Sunday, January 08, 2012 5:26:04 AM
3. This can be easily applied to someone who voluntarily desires to become someone else's slave. They would say, "We're happy this way, let us live in servitude to somebody else." And again this is a request that no one is obliged to respect, we're not to repeal the 13th Amendment just for them. Only the most doctrinaire Libertarian would disagree, Libertarianism defined as "The Freedom to Let the Wind Blow Through my Brains on the Pavement." (Helmet laws are such tyranny)!!


I can't answer that unless you explain how you think it's in any way relevant to my position. As far as I can tell, you're arguing against yourself and that has nothing to do with me.

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