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Penn Jillette: Atheist's Guide to the '12 Election

Hits: 10301 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
grindinblade
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 229 Posts
Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:57:28 AM
Justin I usually agree with your posts, but I must point out a flaw in your statistical logic. Just because this study showed that atheists are a higher IQ on average (shown in multiple studies, not just this one), doesn't mean that someone with a higher IQ is more likely atheist. In the US there are more people that are Christian than atheist, and given a reasonable standard deviation (not sure what it actually is) there may be more high IQ Christians than atheists, making someone with a higher IQ more likely Christian. Your mistake is a common one in statistics, a study may show A associated with B, but you can't make statements then judging B vs A.

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5690 Posts
Tuesday, January 03, 2012 6:54:42 AM
There goes Crakr, moving the goalposts again. And Justin, IQ tests are a sh*tty measure of actual intelligence.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10226 Posts
Tuesday, January 03, 2012 2:22:09 AM
Kudos educating yourself, but you are the exception, not the rule and you know it. You realize you're just trying to combat my rebuttal because you've stepped into a belief of atheist elitism now, which is promoting prejudice against deists.


Ad hominem

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16893 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 7:05:35 PM
Justin: Now, You can take your asinine assumptions about me and other Christians, eat them, and apologize or confirm that you're just a ideologue and a bigot.

Your choice.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16893 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 6:58:51 PM
Justin: The $26,000 figure is 'total household income', not individual income. Please don't be deceptive by doubling it.

How you phrase it, the poor seem to be banned from knowledge.

I didn't say 'banned' and I said, 'Higher Education', not knowledge.

most people have a lower middle class life and have a computer.

Most people, according the other link, are NOT lower middle class and no amount of deceptive math on your part will change that.

Kudos educating yourself, but you are the exception, not the rule and you know it. You realize you're just trying to combat my rebuttal because you've stepped into a belief of atheist elitism now, which is promoting prejudice against deists.

I could likely find a similar graph to this one based on ethnicity, but if so, promoting it would be racist now wouldn't it ?

My average IQ score is 150, grew up lower middle class, have a college degree and I'm Christian.

mcboozerilla
Male, 30-39, Europe
 649 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 5:38:41 PM
"Individual thinking". "Free thinking". He doesn't even understand how ridiculous, and wholly arrogant, these terms are.

I'm a Christian but I support DUE PROCESS. We, every man AND woman, have a fundamental civic right to due process. That's the rally against anti-abortion laws. I'm against abortion, I believe it's a sin, but I don't want the government to decide when it's acceptable and not. It's between a woman, and her mate if he's around and not a rapist, and God.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 11:12:26 AM
be honest. I don't blame you friend. Feel free to combat what I've said so I can prove you wrong some more. I do enjoy it, friend.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 11:12:14 AM
of course). Take two people who grea up in the same neighborhood, with the same family wealth, and attended the same schools. One of the two is 99% likely to be naturally more intelligent than the other. And all this study says is that he is more likely to be an atheist than his friend. The study shows that there's a correlation between intelligence and religion, not between religion and intelligence. In the same way that a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. I can see why you don't understand this though. You're an American (average IQ 98), and you're a theist, I'm guessing Christian (average IQ 98). Therefore you more than likely have a very average IQ (not necessarily, because there's a domain and range for a reason). I guess a mad theist with average intelligence just can't grasp the concept that they're not the brightest humans on the face of the planet. I'd be pissed and try to disprove it as well, to be honest.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 11:12:00 AM
intelligence. There's no direct corrilation, even though you think there is. A K-12 education is mandatory (excluding dropout privalidges at I believe 16), and no deficiency of money can keep you from being allowed that education. How you phrase it, the poor seem to be banned from knowledge. Tell me why income determines intelligence. I grew up in a lower middle class home, and I went to public school.. a very pooty public school in the Detroit Metro area. And I have an IQ that far surpases anyone I know (save a person or two). So please tell me how I obtained this vast intelligence coming from such a low income home and having to go to poor public schooling? You realize you're just trying to combat this study because you don't like that the members of your religion are proven to be less intelligent (on average, of course).

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 11:11:22 AM
I can't spell encyclopedia without spell check and I have an IQ of 168 (189 math and science). And again, please read several things I made sure to word very carefully. "Lower middle class", if you realized that most household have (optimistically in today's economy) two people bring home about 26K a year, for a net total of 52K a year. That's lower middle class. Math, it's hard, I know. And then read what I said here "typically, unless you're using a friends or public PC, but let's go with the vast majority here". I made sure to say that to counter what I knew you were going to try to say, but somehow you didn't read that and desided to list public computers anyways. Sure there's people who are poor and have access to computers, which is why I listed my exception, but most people (KEY WORD MOST, because I don't know if you'll read it this time), have a lower middle class life and have a computer. However, even if they were poor, it has nothing to do with intelligen

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16893 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 9:48:25 AM
Justin: That means most, if not all, the participants were educated, lower middle class (and higher)


Really ? I've seen people living on food stamps with $400-500 laptops that couldn't spell the word encyclopedia without using a dictionary (that is if they even owned a dictionary).

Sorry but there are a lot of poor people on the internet, more than you think there are, even when I was homeless I could get on the internet via library computers. They are giving elementary school children laptops to take home as part of the (OLPC) program.

It's your assumptions of education level and income that are wrong. In another link here on IAB it states that half of all Americans make less than $26,000 a year, the poverty level is $22,350 a year.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 8:31:37 AM
dispute this fact, and hope no one else understands logic. But on the plus side you don't have to worry. It's just the average theist that isn't as bright. I'm sure you're brighter than plenty of atheists, and there's plenty of theists who are brighter than I am. But the average atheist, given the exact same education and weath as a theist, is more intelligent.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 8:29:10 AM
@CrakrJak

Sorry to disappoint you, but the study was conducted online using US citizens only. Meaning you have to have a computer and internet access to take the survey (typically, unless you're using a friends or public PC, but let's go with the vast majority here). That means most, if not all, the participants were educated, lower middle class (and higher) Americans. So I'm sorry, but the results were not scewed, nor would they be scewed if it were in fact a worldwide test. In order for the results to be faulty, you'd have to have an uneven sample such as taking all atheist scores from highly educated populations and theist results from very poorly educated population. Mixing samples would decrease everyone's average as a whole, but still give you proper ratios. However, I assure you Harvard did not make this careless mistake. You obviously have no understanding of statistics, or just really badly want to dispute this fact,

Neoptolemos
Male, 30-39, Europe
 535 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 6:37:17 AM
TL;DW

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16893 Posts
Monday, January 02, 2012 3:16:10 AM
Justin: The major problem with that study was that it conducted worldwise, with many of the countries with much lower GDP than Europe or America.

A similar graph using GDP data has the same correlation. Since poorer countries have less opportunity for higher education, IQ scores are bound to suffer as a result.

In short, it's more about money and educational opportunity than any particular religion. A poor atheist, on average, won't be any smarter than a poor muslim, Jew, Or Christian.

wickedsngr
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 457 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 10:52:18 PM
I love Penn. I am a non-denominational Christian, and he just makes me smile. He is so smart and just makes such wonderful arguments. I agree with him 100% on the fact that religion should not even be brought into a political campaign. God should not be used as a political platform. Period. These idiots like Bachmann and Perry make me want to punch someone.

Suicism
Male, 18-29, Western US
 3672 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:06:21 PM
This is the last thing I'm worrying about when it comes to Obama.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 10:46:30 AM
I'll just leave this here. Average IQ's based on religion, a Harvard study.

Muslim- 92
Christian- 98
Pagan- 98
Hindu- 104
Buddhist- 108
Jew- 115
Atheist- 119

The average Atheist has 21 points over the average Christian. For those you don't know:

Over 140 - Genius or almost genius
120 - 140 - Very superior intelligence
110 - 119 - Superior intelligence
90 - 109 - Average or normal intelligence
80 - 89 - Dullness
70 - 79 - Borderline deficiency in intelligence
Under 70 - Feeble-mindedness

The average atheist is one point from "very superior intelligence" and the average christian is on the lower half of average intelligence. And I would just like to say that the average person is actually pretty stupid.

Porkchop275
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 120 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 9:22:02 AM
I want to know what his views on Ron Paul are.

slut_etta
Female, 50-59, Southern US
 3245 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 7:49:48 AM
what i've never been able to figure out is why my lack of faith in any sort of god is found to be so threatening to people who possess their own faith. by their christian teachings, the righteous believers will sit at the right hand of (their) god for eternity while the nonbelievers languish in hell until the end of all time.

if i'm willing to take the chance and the responsibility for my own non-beliefs, why be so upset about it?

rahlzel
Male, 18-29, Western US
 11 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:50:24 AM
"But think for a second how f*cking stupid the average person is. We've all been there, we've all done it, we've all discussed it at parties. But the really scary thought is, by definition, half of them are more f*cking stupid than that." - davymid, A.K.A. The Reincarnation of George Carlin

<3

pfkdxius
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 315 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 3:34:40 AM
Once again, a bad, misleading caption.

I usually don't like this guy, I think he's too angry. So it's nice to see him say he's actually optimistic.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16893 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 1:14:23 AM
...every word in the bible is the word of god.


Neither God (capital G) or Jesus said every word in the Bible, in fact most of the words in the bible are either men talking about or describing the events they witnessed or giving instruction to others. The Bible contains "the words of God", but it's contents are not 100% God's words.

Nevertheless we Christians do call the Bible "the word of God" because it does contain God's words.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12051 Posts
Sunday, January 01, 2012 12:45:44 AM
You'd have to be retarded or brainwashed to really, totally, believe that every word in the bible is the word of god. Or the Koran. Or Dianetics.

You'd think that, wouldn't you?

But think for a second how f*cking stupid the average person is. We've all been there, we've all done it, we've all discussed it at parties. But the really scary thought is, by definition, half of them are more f*cking stupid than that.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 11845 Posts
Saturday, December 31, 2011 10:26:00 PM
You'd have to be retarded or brainwashed to really, totally, believe that every word in the bible is the word of god. Or the Koran. Or Dianetics.

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