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A Post For All The I-A-B Atheists [Pic]

Hits: 18102 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: Funny | Added by: eugenius
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 11:10:52 PM
"The purpose of my fourth link was to reinforce the 'clannish nature' and their beliefs and ideas on disease, as misguided as they were rarely they did stumble on something that worked, but that sort of shamanism is not medicine."



i think you keep using words like 'clannish' and 'shamanism' because you think it somehow detracts from what these men were doing. true, their skills and knowledge are not what they are today but it's obvious that they knew what worked and how to do it if not WHY it worked. how is this not medicine? For the longest time christians had a pretty crap understanding of medicine too, employing treatments that modern doctors might describe as clannish or shamanistic.
your first link speaks to christians giving better care to people with disabilities than before. what it does not in any way show is that before this time sick people(not the same as people with disabilities) were treated like vermin as you claimed

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16145 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 10:40:22 PM
davymid: That was actually a link I quoted from early on, but it was rather vague about Egyptian and Greek health care, but it does mention that the buildings themselves were 'temples', dedicated to healing gods, not hospitals. Sure you might've been able to get a broken nose fixed or a arm bone set, but even early shamans had this basic knowledge, but if the injury got badly infected, gangrene, cellulitis, tetanus, etc.., you were pretty much doomed.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16145 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 10:23:41 PM
As for the first link, "Social Viewpoint: Principle of the Least: "For he who is least among you all — he is the greatest." Jesus Christ.. showed compassion for persons with disabilities... Jesus is frequently credited with showing kindness and effecting miraculous cures of those who were lame, blind, and otherwise disabled... Jesus also welcomed those who were poor and disenfranchised and treated them as equals.", is very relevant, as is how people were treated before, "Living conditions for persons with disabilities were brutal during this period. Some people were able to survive through acts of charity or as objects of curiosity, but most were not as fortunate. Intolerance, sickness, and disregard for persons with disabilities often meant death or a very low quality of life. Moral Viewpoint: Early Greeks and Romans valued physical perfection. Appearances mattered. Racial and physical differences were seen as marks of inferiority.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 11783 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 10:21:06 PM
All I would say is that in your original assertion of "Considering that the very idea of building hospitals and taking care of the sick was a Christian idea..." (which was what I took exception to, besides the assertion that atheist doctors can only possibly be motivated by greed), you linked a wikipedia article on "prehistoric medicine". Prehistoric medicine is not really what we're talking about here, that was prehistoric, by definition. What is in question is decidely "historic" mediciinal care, both occidental and oriental, which was comtemporaneous with or before Christianity. A better link would have been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital#History, which demonstrates abundant evidence that Christians didn't invent hospital care.

Agree to disagree, with a friendly handshake?

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 11783 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 10:20:53 PM
Crakrjak, THANK YOU. Was that so hard? All you had to do was to provide some evidence to back up your claims, you would have saved yourself a lot of grief and venom if you had just done so in the first place.

Now, I HAVE read your links, and yes, you have changed my view somewhat. I already knew that Christianity has contributed to the advancement of medicinal practices, but your links give me food for thought.

See? Not everyone who disagrees with aspects of your world-view are diametrically opposed to you. As I stated before, I do NOT hate Christians, or Christianity. If you have some evidence to back up your claims, then just show it. Saying "This is how it was, go look it up for yourself" is bound to get people's heckles up.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16145 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 10:19:55 PM
ReBoot: The purpose of my fourth link was to reinforce the 'clannish nature' and their beliefs and ideas on disease, as misguided as they were rarely they did stumble on something that worked, but that sort of shamanism is not medicine.

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 7:54:42 PM
You've managed to prove (to me at least) that christians played a great role in developing modern hospitals. congrats.

As for proving your stance that everyone before christians were little more than faith healers, you fail kinda hard.
For your stances on the origin of morality and ethics we've still got nothing but maybe you have some more sources for that.

I'm really proud of your Crakr for finally at least making the attempt to back your claims up. Very refreshing and don't be discouraged from doing so in the future just because they're largely spurious.

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 7:02:35 PM
Did you even read your forth link? it seems to suggest that pre-christian cultures did in fact care for the sick to a larger degree, even using some surprisingly advanced means (eg> fungus to fight bacterial infection)

your last link explains only that part of christianity's spread may have been due to they're care of the ill. that they would have suffered less from plague because they took care of each other and because they provided answers (accurate or not) to the sick, converting them in a time of fear and death
One link, Crakrjak. Please, one link to demonstrate how all medicinal care before Christianity "treated the poor, disabled and diseased much like rats"

Only your first link mentions anything like that but this wretched treatment apparently continued into the 1970's so i don't know what it was meant to prove

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 6:48:30 PM
your first link has no apparent bearing on your arguments. in fact it cites several christians responsible for demonizing the ill or deformed. This situation only begins to improve in the Renaissance when people began to pull away from the church and rely more on science

Your second link is questionable since it contains no sources and is from a catholic site. now that's not a reason by itself to discount it except that (interested that you seemed to have a point) i looked up some more articles. Some pointed to christianity inventing hospitals and health care (all christian sites) and the rest make reference to various cultures predating or uninfluenced by christianity

after reading your third link and some others i found myself i will admit that christian institution contributed heavily to hospitals as we know them today



CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16145 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 4:34:07 PM
Angilion: Let's get this perfectly straight, I said Jesus' Good Samaritan Parable started the Christian ethic of Empathy and Sympathy for strangers.

I made it VERY CLEAR that people before then were clannish and had empathy and sympathy for those in their group, but not strangers.

So please quit twisting words.

And as I predicted you didn't even bother to look at my links to prove my points, which is why I didn't even want to bother posting them in the first place.

Good job on living down to my already low expectations.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10534 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 4:02:05 PM
Nice attempt at ignoring the issue, as usual, but I'm not falling for it.

None of those links are links to your posts, your statements. That's the issue at the moment and I'm not going to be sidetracked. I'd be amazed if any of those links are in the slightest bit relevant to the claim you made (that Christianity invented compassion).

But this thread is now on page 4, so it's dead and you can move on to making another claim about something else. Maybe I'll spend the time debunking it, maybe I won't bother.

A free bit of advice:

If you repeatedly state something and then claim you never did, go back and delete the posts in which you stated it in order to conceal the evidence proving your new claim to be false. I'm surprised you haven't thought of that already - you're not stupid.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16145 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 4:55:47 AM
Link Spam, I doubt you will read them, and if you do you'll still argue it to death.

Link 1, Link 2, Link 3, Link 3, Link 4, Link 5

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10534 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 2:46:49 AM
I've made no false statements and clarified my points. All you've done is basically call me a liar, repeatedly, with junk arguments.


You prove my point again.

You make a false statement (about your own posts, no less).

I spend the time necessary to prove your statement is false (by re-reading and quoting some of your posts).

You make up a new false statement.

You spent a few seconds making it up. I spent ~10 minutes disproving it.

I'm not sure if you're a liar. It may be that you manage to convince yourself that whatever you say at any given time is the truth, regardless of how much it goes against the evidence and regardless of how much it contradicts anything else you say.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 12:55:11 AM
I might've given you my multiple references, which you could easily find on your own, but are too lazy to do so.

Crakr, in a court case "you could have looked it up yourself" doesn't count as a valid excuse for withholding evidence.

Sorry, but you fail.

Altaru
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 3500 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 12:53:05 AM
So holding India up to be some great pioneer of medicinal treatment is rather false. India still suffers from huge sanitation, water quality, and disease problems.

Not that, you know, being colonized and treated as effectively slave labor, then being suddenly left behind with a void in society had anything to do with that...

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 12:43:25 AM
lol i kept getting momentarily confused when i saw my posts. I said THAT? lol

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Friday, December 02, 2011 12:27:41 AM
Awesome! Thanks a lot!

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 11783 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:33:49 PM
completely unrelated. could somebody PLEASE tell me how to italicize on this thing. lol i'm newb, forgive me.

No sweat.

Go (quote)COPY PASTA HERE(/quote)

Replace curved parentheses with square quotes, and you're set.

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:20:13 PM
completely unrelated. could somebody PLEASE tell me how to italicize on this thing. lol i'm newb, forgive me.

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 11:01:55 PM
One link, Crakrjak. Please, one link to demonstrate how all medicinal care before Christianity "treated the poor, disabled and diseased much like rats"

This. oh for the love of god this.

Everyone else's stance: "Christian physicians helped cure people, but so did other people of different faiths, including those of no particular faith."

Just noticed this cuz of davymid's post. there is literally no one else in this thread who has backed Crakr's claims or made similar one's of their own. Not saying that proves definitively that your're wrong Crakr but it's certainly telling


davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 11783 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:59:37 PM
One link, Crakrjak. Please, one link to demonstrate how all medicinal care before Christianity "treated the poor, disabled and diseased much like rats".

And sorry, I don't buy your bullsh*t of "I've provided it multiple times before". Link it again, it can't be that hard.

Heck, let me try you at your own game.

"All Christians are child-f*cking pedophiles, and have been since the dawn of time. Only since the invention of democracy have Christians stopped humping children, it's a historical fact".

What's that, you want evidence? I won't post evidence that all Christians are amoral monsters, I've posted that evidence many times before. You can go look it up for yourself. I stand exonerated. You're just a dishonest revisionist historian if you think otherwise!

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 11783 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:37:08 PM
ReBoot & Angillion Neither of you have disproved my arguments, You've taken spurious statements by revisionist historians and used them dishonestly.


El oh f*cking el. Crakrjak, you could be the original inventor of revisionist history.

Your stance: "Christianity invented hospitals, and outside of Christianity, sick people were all quarantined and probed as medical curiosities by amoral non-Christian physicians. And modern atheist physicians are only motivated by greed, to boot. Everything good in the world, including morals and ethics, came from Christianity, even if you don't acknowledge it."

Everyone else's stance: "Christian physicians helped cure people, but so did other people of different faiths, including those of no particular faith."

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:36:37 PM
I forgot, could you explain what your thing is against gay couples using the term marriage?

here's that part again:
You: using/abusing the term marriage
Me: What's so special about a word? Answer. Nothing. it's the meaning of the word that is important and your definition IS outdated.

And just let me halt the words:not worth my time, which i know are on the tip of your tongue. Take all the time you need. i am patient

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:28:30 PM
...could denounce it. As an aside i really would love to know which parts of my posts gave you all that detailed information about my character. Oh hang on, you're just going to ignore this because there's nothing you can say to make it seem that you were right. Moving on.
You don't 'clerify' you re-word your arguments until they fit with the new stance you're taking.
When someone points out you were strait up wrong (eg> the Samaritan argument wherein you stated before that parable no one had any empathy for strangers) you just ignore it. You ignore and you weasel but i can forgive this if only you'll stop and actually address the points people are making

ReBoot
Male, 18-29, Canada
 229 Posts
Thursday, December 01, 2011 10:17:16 PM
There is no use trying to educate either of you, you don't want to be...

Aaaand the fallback. it's no use, it's not worth my time, you don't want to learn blah blah blah. I've Told you, i would love to be enlightened if you can cite some sources but you just never do. it's never worth your precious time

try a new tune Crakr cuz this one is getting old.

one day you're going to say "i can see you're unconvinced and here's my evidence to support my outrageous claims"
on that day i will drop dead of a heart attack

Like i said Crakr, you write real pretty but as they say: a rose by any other name is still a steaming pile of crap

Neither of you have disproved my arguments

To be fair i wasn't trying to disprove your arguments, just pointing out your weasel-style debate tactics and asking you to back up your claims.
I note also that you didn't try to deny the fact that you built up your straw man description of me so you

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