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Are The Poor Getting Poorer?

Hits: 10582 | Rating: (2.3) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: AntEconomist
Page: 1 2 3 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Awkkkward
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 4 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:03:22 PM
This is a straw man argument (just so we are clear, misrepresenting someone else's position and inserting a distorted counter argument). The main point that progressives make is that the share of the pie for those not in the top 10% has gone considerably down. Seems like he is basically saying that the poor are richer now that they have a microwaves, as compared to another time when only the rich had those! ZOMG IMPROVMENT. Also, this compares households, meaning now that more women work this is included in the data.

krw888
Male, 50-59, Canada
 154 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:01:27 PM
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics..

ANCB
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 177 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:42:46 PM
I'd like to point out that the think tank responsible for this video is funded in part by the Waltons (Wal-Mart owners) and the Koch brothers.

Fatninja01
Male, 18-29, Australia
 24533 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 1:26:25 PM
Money is what you make it....

xerch
Male, 18-29, S. America
 195 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:52:39 AM
Ok I get it, americans getting poorer is a myth. Meanwhile in somalia.....

evanbartlett
Male, 30-39, Western US
 555 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:42:54 AM
His argument is pretty bad. He's saying that everyone is better off than they would have been in the same situation in the late 1970's. Well, of course. No one is arguing that point. The issue that progressives point to is the comparatively less "total piece of the pie" that he highlights in the beginning. He's an economist...he should be smarter than that.

chimmeychang
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 680 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:15:42 AM
also, that chart is income, not wealth...and lets not forget the wealthy tend to invest more than work for money...i am just saying

chimmeychang
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 680 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:14:28 AM
and then there is this grapth, i dont have a phd, but it looks like it completely counters what he just said...

huppamaniac
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 21 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:53:24 AM
Everybody crying foul about inflation should realize this guy has a PhD in economics. He hasn't forgotten inflation. Either its included or he's blatantly lying.

Further, these comparisons are never valid. I'm richer than Rockefeller in many respects. I could fly around the world in a matter of hours, sit in comfort in air conditioning on a hot day, have access to infinitely better medical care, etc.

Crabes
Male, 30-39, Canada
 1049 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:36:50 AM
Lot of people say are not rich because of lazyness. i dont think its true. With hard work you can become not poor but not rich either. There is a competition on the market which cause some people being rich and others being less rich. Too have someone uber-rich there HAS to be poor people

unmercyfuldu
Male, 18-29, Western US
 772 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:31:50 AM
Inflation?

Superapearmy
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 86 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:16:13 AM
He's probably in the top 2 percent, non-nice individual.

skine
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 724 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:12:02 AM
"Poor guy is still objectively better off. had 1 car, now has 3."

That's not necessarily true. It would require all cars to have and maintain the same value.

For example, let's compare someone owning one computer in 1991 against someone owning three today, or even someone in 2001 owning one computer against someone owning three today.

Sure, they are better off in terms of the number of computers, and they are undoubtedly better off in terms of the quality of the computers.

That does not mean that they are better off financially.

sssfdg
Male, 18-29, Canada
 190 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:45:03 AM
sure the poor make more money.... but everything costs more now.... so when you account for inflation.. the poor are actually getting poorer.

Not to mention that most of his stats are over 20 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:29:32 AM

I don't need to become "rich".
I'd be happy with a shot at just being secure I won't end up homeless next year.

morimacil123
Male, 18-29, Europe
 171 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:19:07 AM
@Bravosmith: "The truth is anyone can become rich in this country if they want it bad enough"
I dont actually think thats true, for example, someone who is born into a poor family, and thus has to work instead of getting an education, and then cant really read, write, or do basic maths very well... that guy might have a chance at becoming a milionaire, but lets face it, his chances are incredibly slim, if they exist at all.
But still, even assuming your statement is true, it doesnt adress the problem of inequalities at all.

Lets assume your statement is indeed true, and the rich are all super gifted ppl.
Before:
Rich (gifted and hardworking according to you) earns 20% more than average dude.
Now:
Rich earns 50 000 times more than average working dude (5 000 000% more)

Thats rising inequality.
The issue isnt that some guy earns more than average, thats always the case. The issue is HOW MUCH more.

Commentator
Male, 40-49, Western US
 270 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:05:50 AM
We have reached a new height of propaganda. I was waiting for the Onion logo to come up, if anyone took this as fact please go take a sociology course!

DinVen
Male, 30-39, Europe
 374 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:57:44 AM
What would prompt I-A-B to post a political hit piece on the poor of the US?

This video is nothing but cherry picking and manipulation. Who can take his archaic data seriously anyway?

patchgrabber
Male, 30-39, Canada
 5710 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:54:53 AM
"Why is his data so outdated? The most recent data he cited was from 1997... over 20 years ago??"

Well, close but not actually 20 years yet.

@Bravosmith: "The truth is anyone can become rich in this country if they want it bad enough"

Not true. There are too many mitigating factors outside your control to make that statement accurate. Someone's socio-economic status could be drastically different from your own. By individualizing success and failure without regard to the policies/ideologies/prejudices faced by people you are reinforcing the fallacious models of society stemming from what you learned from the system of meritocracy taught to you in school.

Burton_Ian
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 809 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:36:27 AM
Why is his data so outdated? The most recent data he cited was from 1997... over 20 years ago??

The vast amount of RECENT data shows that it is that time exactly that has been the most disparaging unequal between the rich and the poor; between 2000 and 2011.

Really makes you wonder why THIS would be his smoking gun, outdated data for an outdated economic theory.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:10:14 AM

It is possible that he is right about the poor being better off.
We definately have more services to aid the poor now than 30 years ago, so in that regard the poor ARE better off.

But the Middle Class is not. They have dropped to the brink of poverty and will be the New Poor with the next market drop, due any time now.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:05:26 AM

Solvent
"It's called living outside of your means people."

In a strange way, you are right. And I'd like to thank you. Silly assed comments always make me think.

People can't afford good food or basic housing so those things are "outside of their means". Health care is also "outside their means" as is college for their children.

Just because it is "outside your means" does not mean it is not a basic need.

Poverty should be defined "When basics are outside your means".

Bravosmith
Male, 30-39, Midwest US
 45 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 5:34:42 AM
I'm so tired of this. "He's rich, I'm poor, he has and I have not, blah blah blah..." The truth is anyone can become rich in this country if they want it bad enough (remember Obama say a $250k income is rich). Yes yes, there are some people that are born into wealth... well, there are people born with natural abilities as well. Just because I wasn't born with a musical ear, doesn't mean I can't learn to play the piano! Life is full of risks and the spoils go to the victors. People need to spend more time being grateful for what they have, instead of worrying about what everyone else has. Try being happy for a while instead of forcing misery on yourself and others. If your unhappy with where you are today, get started on becoming a different person. It's worked for me, and thousands of others. I'm done on the soap box.

sgst
Male, 18-29, Europe
 7 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:50:01 AM
Izaq and morimacil123 have the truth of it. of course everybody is getting richer - the US and world economy has grown strongly for the last 30+ years - but it's the super-rich and rising inequality that's the problem, not to mention the real post-inflation changes in purchasing power these two groups see, as well as the rising debt of the less well off (and pretty much everyone but the rich). plus, of course, the video says nothing of the morality and social strains of increasing income inequality.

morimacil123
Male, 18-29, Europe
 171 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:34:57 AM
""We have debt and we have bankruptcies and forclosures in record number, so, er, how can we possibly be doing better? ""
Cose 5 years ago, you already had all that crap, and you were in debt for an iphone, and now you're in debt for a newer iphone.
Thats the "objectively better" part of it all.

Lets simplify it to make it easier to understand.
1 poor dude working, 1 rich guy investing.
10 cars have been made in a year, poor dude got 1, rich dude got 9.
Poor dude is objectively better off, he had no car, he got one. Hes still in debt, and working his ass off. he got 10% of the wealth produced.
Next year, 100 cars are made. poor guy gets 2 now, rich guy gets 98.
Poor guy is still objectively better off. had 1 car, now has 3.
but instead of getting 10% of the wealth produced, he only got 2% this year.

Objectively (compared to himself last year), hes getting richer.
Comparatively (compared to rich

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