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Lawrence O'Donnell Rewrites Wall Street Protests

Hits: 10079 | Rating: (3.1) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: madest
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
MichaelBored
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:17:58 PM
@Gerry: I did read carefully.

Cajun247: "50% of households don't pay taxes." (edit: with no "income" qualifier, wrong)

Madest responded: "The actual number of Americans who don’t pay any taxes isn’t half, but 14%...to say 50% pay no taxes is flat out wrong." (edit: This is correct. Again, talking about ALL taxes, not JUST income taxes.)

Gerry: "@madest - incorrect. 47% don't pay income tax according to USAToday article"

...and you're telling me to read carefully? Let me illustrate:

On the other hand, I'm sorry if you thought I was referring to you about wanting to tax the poor. That was for Crakr (who thinks returning to Reagan-era tax rates is just like communism) and sethmccary (who doesn't know what socialism means)

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:42:29 PM

@ madest - it wasn't 'nonsense' when I was agreeing with you.

madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6460 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:57:10 AM
Gerry, I appreciate your attempt to correct me but "income" taxes wasn't what he or I was talking about. Please, don't force me to delete your nonsense.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:55:01 AM

@ MichaelBored ~ A couple of things.

Yes I did read the article. I posted it to dispell madest's claim that only 14% didn't pay taxes.

I am not in favor of taxing the poor. I never said I was. When republicans say "broaden the tax base" they mean taxing the 47% who are poor. I'm not in favor of that. I don't know where you thought you read that I do want to taxt them, but read more carefully.

I am in favor of taxing the rich exactly the same as the middle class. Not more-not less.

MichaelBored
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 219 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:17:45 AM
@Gerry1of1: C'mon, man...Income taxes are not the only taxes paid. Did you not read the article you linked to?

"Most still pay Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, sales taxes and property taxes (if they own any property)." Not to mention local and state taxes as well.

So yeah, everybody DOES have "skin in the game," it's just that poor people have a lot less skin to put in.

And while the income tax is progressive, every other tax that those same people do pay is regressive. Not to mention, the reason we don't tax that people that poor is that THEY'RE POOR. They barely have enough money to keep them above the @#$%&! POVERTY level - and in many cases don't even make that much.

But here we are, richest nation on the globe, with the top marginal tax rate the lowest its been in decades, and we're complaining that the poor aren't squeezed hard enough.


dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 590 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:10:52 AM
>>>Why is "class warfare" as defined by republicans always the poor wanting the weathy to be taxed as equals to the middle class? <<<

I guess I just am missing something. Where in the tax code does it say hey you are rich here is the special secret handshake that lets you use the special tax rates? It does not exist. Are there different rates for different TYPES of income? Yes. Are there deductions for specific activities? Yes. But how is that unequal?

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 590 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:06:10 AM
>>>The tax system needs a complete overhaul. <<<

I agree 100% But getting there by trying to play one group against another, failing to understand WHY some income is taxed differently than others, and that a "loophole" is really the government rewarding specific actions (some of which I bet you might think twice about eliminating), does not get us to a better system just a different system.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:06:45 AM

@ dang007 ~ I support some republican ideas. I also support some democrat and some independant ideas. I make my mind up on each topic and don't follow a party line.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:04:45 AM

@ madest - incorrect. 47% don't pay income tax according to
USAToday article



madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6460 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:21:07 AM
To state as fact that 1/2 of Americans aren't paying taxes is just BS talking points jammed into the empty heads of people who believe everything they hear. The actual number of Americans who don’t pay any taxes isn’t half, but 14%. This group of non-taxpayers is largely composed of the elderly and disabled. The people who don’t pay taxes do so because they can’t work or are retired. Out of those 14% Some paid property taxes and, it is fair to say, just about all of them paid sales taxes of one kind or another. So to say 50% pay no taxes is flat out wrong.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10283 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:56:29 AM
None of the middle class or poor have the ability to escape taxes, the rich are the only ones who can


Yet those rich only make up less than 2% of the population at anytime and 50% of households don't pay taxes.

madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6460 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:21:48 AM
You called them "tax cheats" not I. But OK lets run with that because I agree they are cheating the system to benefit their own greed. Same goes for loopholes and tax havens and subsidies. None of the middle class or poor have the ability to escape taxes, the rich are the only ones who can. Their loopholes, subsidies and havens were all bought and paid for by the rich to change rules to their benefit.
The tax system needs a complete overhaul. It cannot benefit one group of people more favorably than the other. It needs to be blind in order to be fair.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 590 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:00:19 AM
>Their capital gains taxes are 15%. The system is skewed to protect their wealth at the cost of the middle class.<<<


Um no. Capital gains are taxed at a different rate because. 1. it is a recognition that capital is AT RISK. 2. It benefits the country for people to put capital at risk. This is were the growth in the economy comes from.

From an analysis of 2008 IRS data "close to 94% of those who have to consider the capital gains tax when investing make less than $200,000 year. Further, 73% of those who report the sale of capital investments make less than $100,000 per year."

Stop listening to tax cheats trying to tell you what you or anyone else should pay in taxes, Buffet, Timothy Geithner, the Clintons, etc. etc.

We can argue what the appropriate rate should be but trying to compare it to income tax is just displaying your ignorance.

dang007
Male, 30-39, Southern US
 590 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:45:11 AM
>>>I do think 35% is a bit high. If they paid it I'd be in favor of lowering it.
<<<

So you support republicanism efforts to reform the tax code?

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:39:31 AM

It's not only rich people that should pay a fair share...Corporations.

Last year GE made 14.2 billion in profits but paid ZERO corporate income tax. Their tax rate is supposed to be 35% but thanks to loop holes none of them ever come even close to that number.

side note: I do think 35% is a bit high. If they paid it I'd be in favor of lowering it.

madest
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 6460 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:27:01 AM
30% is the average middle class tax for anyone making $35k to $380k. Many rich people (especially the greedy crooks on Wall Street). Make their money off investments. Their capital gains taxes are 15%. The system is skewed to protect their wealth at the cost of the middle class. It doesn't matter how much share of the countries wealth comes from the rich if their investment is 1/2 that of the less fortunate.

Another thing. There is nothing "illegal" about protesting.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17183 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:22:07 AM
Gerry: I have no problem with getting rid of the tax loopholes for the rich. But the middle class does not pay 30% of their income in tax, unless you consider people making over $200,000 a year as 'middle class'.

sethmccary
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 208 Posts
Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:33:45 AM
We need to abolish income tax and the Fed completely.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33910 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:39:52 PM

@ Crakr ~ Your right. the top 2% do pay 50% of the taxes. But they control 96% of the wealth. Why do they only pay 50%? Why is so much of their income deffered or given other tax credits?

Middle class tax rate is 30%
Rich tax rate is 20%

Crakr, if you are rich I understand why you want to keep your money. If you aren't rich I really don't get why you chop your own legs off defending these biased tax laws.

ledzeppeloyd
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 2304 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:27:37 PM
the whole world is watching

sethmccary
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 208 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:42:23 PM
You dumb socialists.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17183 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:09:41 PM

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17183 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:04:47 PM
madest: The middle class doesn't pay the majority of the taxes here in the US, The richest 2% pay nearly 50% of the taxes.

Now why would i be for the middle class having to pay even more in taxes, to be equal with the rich ?

Class warfare is not about taxes, it's about envy it's about starting violent revolution.

I don't care to be rich, I have what is needed to survive and don't envy the problems rich people have to deal with.

Rich people worry about their money, they know unscrupulous people want to take what they have from them, they become large targets for criminals. Most rich people don't mind paying their fair share in taxes, and I'm not going to hate them for their contributions to paying for the majority of my disability.

isthiswherei
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 14 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 7:55:39 PM
Protesters whatever, and maybe the cops were outnumbered, but what happened isn't right. There was no reason to do this here with the pepperspray, or the ganging up on a chick by a bunch of cops. If there was someone from the protest side that smashed some windows, then deal with them, but the right to assemble has to be protected, call the protesters brats, or whatever, that still doesn't change the fact that their rights to peaceful assemblage were taken away without any cause.

piperfawn
Male, 30-39, Europe
 3890 Posts
Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:18:07 PM
Fatninja01 your classic "meh!" is allways wellcome.

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