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Bonobos: Cooking

Hits: 6843 | Rating: (2.3) | Category: Science | Added by: elkingo
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16710 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 9:35:50 PM
Armies and armed civilians are two different things. Armed civilians, in most cases, have overthrown tyrants, armies usually install tyrants with a coup.

Trying to say that armed civilians lead to tyrants is like saying abortion leads to child birth, it's just bassackwards.

Tekinette
Male, 18-29, Europe
 266 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 6:10:15 PM
"This is why tyrants around the world, and for over a hundred years, have praised gun control laws, it makes it easier for them to ignore and trample upon those words written on paper we call rights."

This is how most tyrants got their power in the first place aswell.. The army and armed civilians is what usually puts tyrants in place, rarely the opposite. This anti gun control logic is getting really old.

Fatninja01
Male, 18-29, Australia
 24481 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 1:13:16 PM
wow.. these are the longest comments i have seen in a while.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16710 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 11:00:44 AM
Social norms are not rights, in fact social norms lead to lawmaking that restricts rights. Abortion isn't 'right' anyways, it was a legal decision not a legislated law or constitutional amendment and may one day be overturned like many decisions before it.

Legal similarities have sprung up in the cases of animals, and people now believe they should have rights too, but in fact they only have protections.

In short, without the 2nd amendment, the 1st amendment and all the other amendments mean nothing. This is why tyrants around the world, and for over a hundred years, have praised gun control laws, it makes it easier for them to ignore and trample upon those words written on paper we call rights.

robosnitz
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 2752 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 6:02:04 AM
No hair net or nothing. Really? That's disgusting. And what's with those Ginormous testicles? Couldn't slap a 'depends' on that ape ass? That lady should be locked up.They locked up the raw foods people.

yoda141
Male, 18-29, S. America
 268 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 5:33:18 AM
CrakrJak: rights are indeed words in a piece of paper, and are ultimately meaningless, and it is irrelevant to the discussion. Plus, im sure that these bonobos and chimps have some sort of aquired social norms they live by, which is essencially what rights are. Or are you one of those who think rights are god-given? well, explain my right to believe in whatever i want, or a woman's right to an abortion. Those are clearly not what your god wants, yet we have them.
And please, if you have issues with evolution, learn about what it says and what it considers evidence. Tool making in apes is not the hardest evidence that we are apes ourselves. The fact that our chromosomes are just like a chimp's, only that they have 1 pair more which has clearly been fused with another pair in humans (they can map exactly where now i believe) is a stronger argument for common ancestry in humans.

fianzo
Male, 18-29, Europe
 73 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 5:32:35 AM
You seem to counter this by saying it's not scientific but setting up a situation and determining results is almost the very definition of scientific method. If you set up a controlled environment and a man sat down with some water and turned it into wine, yes that would be scientific. Saying 'this one time this dude turned water into wine' is anecdotal they are different. Likewise setting up a controlled experiment to measure if monkeys can understand currency is scientific.

Again i agree with the conclusion humans rights are more important than animals and they are allowed protection but cannot fight for rights, however there are people that deserve rights that them themselves could not fight for. I don't think they don't deserve them because they don't have the capacity to understand it.

TL:DR, yes humans are special, no animals are not 'dumb'

fianzo
Male, 18-29, Europe
 73 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 5:27:57 AM
Intelligence and consciousness are two very different things for this purpose i would believe. As yes i can agree with you that at no point will a chicken sit down and think to itself 'come on steven, think which move should i make next' in fact i agree that no animal would.

In the case that i linked, not sure if you read it or not, again i don't think the monkeys at any point sat down and consciously thought, so i wonder how much sex this poker chip will get me. However trade to me is intelligence albeit basic.


CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16710 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 4:53:55 AM
fianzo: I don't know if you ever seen the chicken playing tic-tac-toe game before, but I can assure you the chicken didn't know anything about the game, the chickens would pull on a hidden string behind a labeled 'thinking box', a small computer did all the actual 'thinking'.

You'll find there is a lot of anecdotal evidence concerning intelligence in animals, but anecdotal evidence is not scientific proof.

I could cite dozens of 'miracles' as anecdotal evidence for God, but it wouldn't be scientific proof that he exists.

My original point was that humans are unique on planet earth, we are special and animals shouldn't be held in some higher or nobler regard. Animals do not have 'rights', they have protections that we afford them.

Humans have rights, why ? because we have the ability to defend them on our own, without the ability to defend one's rights, then they become just worthless words on a piece of paper.

Dutch-Master
Male, 18-29, Europe
 52 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 3:22:16 AM
I visit this site daily, but i rarely post comments.
Ive seen a pooload of discussions between CrakrJack and others about evolution, God etc.
If the guy doesnt "believe" in evolution but believes in God, then let him if that makes him feel better.
I wished i believed in a God, would make me feel better too, yet i cant.

fianzo
Male, 18-29, Europe
 73 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 2:42:40 AM
Crakr what counts as 'clever' to you?

To me this is real intelligence

Monkey bizness

What is the difference between say monkeys understanding a basic currency system and a human understanding a complex one? You can easily say that a monkey in that situation is just responding to its needs and has to play dice to eat but surely a dumb animal wouldn't be able to? Aren't humans merely responding to their needs just on a much higher level?

I'm sorry i will freely admit i missed the original discussion so i'm just responding to you're last comment so sorry if i've missed the point of the original discussion

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16710 Posts
Monday, September 19, 2011 12:37:36 AM
elkingo: I've had pets that I thought could understand human emotion, you're going to have to do better than that. Humans have this ability to anthropomorphise even inanimate objects. In other words, we can attribute emotions to things that may not actually have them.

We may think of chimps, dolphins, dogs, cats, and other animals as being 'clever', but that does not confirm that they actually are.

It reminds of the trick where a horse can seemingly do math by tapping out the answer with their hoof. In reality the horses were intently watching their handlers for body language that was telling them when to stop their hoof tapping.

Oldfrt
Male, 50-59, Midwest US
 618 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 10:23:46 PM
Totally unrelated, props to @OldOllie for the Toonces reference. My cat is named Toonces because of an incident while driving. No cliffs here, but we almost went off the road.

elkingo
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 3058 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:36:10 PM
No Crakr.. I linked this because of not only your comment, but because you don't really have the desire to google things, or learn things. Bonobos are highly intelligent btw. They can understand complex things, such as emotion. The research into Bonobos goes farther than the video shows, although you wanted to see one cooking, for example, they can do complex intelligence puzzles, have more complex social interactions, differentiate between aging, sickness, injuries, etc.; they have a highly powerful memory (comparable to humans), and can process human thoughts and feelings.

In other words, they are extremely advanced. While this information may not "prove" speciation or evolution for you; it should at least provide you with a basis of understanding that you aren't always right about the things you say. You should examine more than just your thoughts and feelings on a matter before you disregard years of scientific research.

Draculya
Male, 40-49, Asia
 11486 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:29:21 PM
@Subushie too much gaping on bangbros

Subushie
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 1643 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 9:19:07 PM
Am I the only one who has never seen a ape with an ass like that? WTF is going on with that butt....

Outside of that; the noise they make is kinda cute.

OldOllie
Male, 60-69, Midwest US
 12925 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:55:44 PM
Reminds me of Toonces, the driving cat.

"Oh, yes, she can cook -- just not very well."

(Next scene: kitchen engulfed in flames.)

ElijaBlack
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 250 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 8:32:00 PM
it is an interesting documentary

jtrebowski
Male, 40-49, Southern US
 3254 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:20:32 PM
Why would CrakrJak be.......oh...evolution. Never mind.

myssiing
Female, 18-29, Western US
 53 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 7:18:12 PM
@flashpacker I did

Flashpacker
Male, 18-29, Europe
 662 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 6:24:02 PM
"HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!! GET THAT FECKING KNIFE AWAY FROM THE GODDAM MONKEY!!!"

Did anyone else get that reaction?

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33895 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:34:13 PM

Gawd! That high pitch whine!
It's like an episode of The Kardashians

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16710 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:32:15 PM
That's cooking ? :facepalm:

elkingo: What I said included more than 'cooking', but I guess you felt you had to pull out the lone exception, an ape 'aping' something they've seen a human do. Congratulations, you've made yourself look like an ape.

GasMaskKid
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 694 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 5:15:46 PM
Give it pants!

Ant0n
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 842 Posts
Sunday, September 18, 2011 4:48:52 PM
Well it's a female monkey after all....

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