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Gay To Straight Therapy At Michele Bachman Clinic

Hits: 11514 | Rating: (2.6) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: kitteh9lives
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Friday, July 15, 2011 12:53:44 PM
Also I've already cited this article

Text from abstract:
[quote">We conclude that, due to the methodological problems of extant studies, the basis for asserting the existence of relationships between habituation, sensitization, classical conditioning, operant conditioning, and sexual behavior is tenuous.[/quote">

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Friday, July 15, 2011 12:50:31 PM
So you are supporting 5cats assertion that nurture and conditioning are larger factors in determining sexual orientation


If 5Cats interpretation of said experiment is true then we should've had a HIGHLY effective means of changing sexual behavoir. Since the first experiment has been performed we don't even have a way of curing pedophilia. Furthermore Skinner's experiment have thus far have mostly been applicable towards improving childhood education than anything else.

As for the Spitzer study even Spitzer himself had doubtful remarks about it:
"It was very hard to find only 200 highly motivated subjects.
...
There maybe homosexuals who can change but they are very rare."

ElectricEye
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 505 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:57:05 PM
ITs a shame that Bachmann can even be considered as canidate for President.

jdee89
Male, 18-29, Europe
 71 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:16:31 PM
what. do. people. not. understand? being gay is not, I REPEAT NOT, a choice. it really is simple. if you say same sex attraction is a choice, you are wrong. there is no debate to be had. i might as well argue that up is down.

i hope that's cleared it up for people.

TrivialSteve
Male, 40-49, Western US
 38 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:14:21 PM
The big "scandal" here is that (1) Bachman is scamming the government by taking Medicare funds for make-believe medicine and (2) she's a hypocrite for taking funding she's previously condemned. Where is the Republican and Tea Party outrage over this criminal squandering of public monies?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:48:01 PM
Do they tell Alcoholics or Drug abusers the statistics of success or failure before they go to rehab ?


Again those are serious functional problems so it makes sense not to.

Midknight
Male, 18-29, Europe
 15 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:02:04 PM
Im sorry but being a homosexual male I would have to declare the more experience in this matter compared to CrakrJak and 5cats.
Homosexuality is not a choice and it is to do with your DNA and genetic make up.
I'm sure any monkey on reward of treats would do just what you wanted as long as it meant a reward on the other end, just because the monkey did gay acts doesn't mean it is gay. Try to understand that.
Or more better watch this video and educate your ignorant selves before throwing around half-baked and misguided ideas. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NarI0URhWg0

sbeelz
Male, 30-39, Western US
 2869 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:54:25 PM
The Bachmanns using "patient confidentiality" as an excuse for avoiding answering questions about the services they provide is total bullsh*t. HIPAA prevents them from divulging information about WHOM they've treated. If they don't want to talk about it, then they should just say that, but using such a feeble excuse is insulting to everyone's intelligence, and makes it look like they've got something to hide.

Land_of_Ice
Female, 13-17, Europe
 22 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:43:56 PM
You can't cure something that isn't an illness, because there's nothing to cure.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17298 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:26:41 PM
Serpentchick: So you are supporting 5cats assertion that nurture and conditioning are larger factors in determining sexual orientation, In short it's a choice as he and I've said all along.

Thanks for that affirmation.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 17298 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:21:15 PM
Cajun: Do they tell Alcoholics or Drug abusers the statistics of success or failure before they go to rehab ? Of course they don't, and they don't tell them because it helps set them up for failure and reinforces the belief that they can't succeed.

99.99% of elementary school athletes will never make it to become professional athletes, Do you wish to crush all those kids dreams by telling them that statistic ? I think not.

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:16:31 PM

5Cats - not silly at all. haven't you ever heard of 'acting out subconsciously' or 'subconsciously desire to punish yourself' etc. Go read a textbook and stop relying on Wiki

Serpentchick
Female, 18-29, Western US
 379 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:23:41 AM
Things besides DNA affect us at birth. Chemicals, hormones, what your mom ate, epigenes, etc. Not just a "gay gene".
Also, considering the fact that loads od animals, the ones with parental care, use their parents for templates as to what a mate should look/smell/sound like depending on species (that's why there are soo many cichid fish species on lake victoria) so most behavioral things are difficult to isolate with regards to study how they come to be. No parents = no idea who to mate with.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26253 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:43:10 AM
vv now you're just being silly @Gerry, go read Wiki.

vv Skinner didn't try to prove anything about sexual orientation (most of his work was in the 60's & 70's eh?) He DID prove that sexual function is not instinctive (genetic is practically the same thing) as was believed. Thus monkies aren't "born hetero" they learn it!
These experiments were repeated a LOT and were very consistant in their results.

To say someone is "born straight" would require "straight DNA" and be seen as "instinctively straight" m-kay. It's not the case for heteros. How could it be that way for any other orientation?

Gerry1of1
Male, 50-59, Western US
 33911 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:39:22 AM
5Cats "UN-conscious. It's the correct term. It means the same thing. "


Not the same at all. Unconscious is to have to be unaware, lacking cognitave ability.

Subconscious is the idea that your mind is making all kinds of choices and causing behavior without your knowledge.

You might dream while unconscious, but the dream does not cause you to sabotage your relationship. theoretically, the subconscious does that poo.

subconscious = myth

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 9:22:26 AM
Seeing as how I can't find any article on "skinner box monkeys" here are my counter points:
+Spitzer's study on ex-gays suffers from various methodological problems and results are therefore invalid.
+The Skinner Box experiments do not adequately explain how it is possible to change sexual behavoir in humans.
ERGO: Not enough empirical evidence to support the claim that human sexuality can be changed artificially.

slut_etta
Female, 50-59, Southern US
 3422 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:53:21 AM
michele bachman and sarah palin make me ashamed to be a woman. its unbelievable the level of stupidity and avarice that achieve elected office.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:36:08 AM
should a person who feels un-well be allowed to seek counciling?


The people deserve to know the success rates BEFORE they enter the program, and right now they're very slim.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10317 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:33:57 AM
I'm beginning to doubt what the specimens learned in the Skinner Boxes was in fact a sexual orientation, it seems to me they actually learned how to engage in penetrative sex. Once out of the confines of the boxes they'll be free to explore their sexuality.

Then there are problems with Spitzer's study as Reganom pointed out which essentially prevent it from being indicator towards all homosexuals.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 26253 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:52:16 AM
The real argument here is, it it OK to be gay?

No, actually @SubstanceD, (PK Dick Refrence! A Scanner Darkly) the arguement is: should a person who feels un-well be allowed to seek counciling?
Funny how gender corrective surgery IS allowed without ANY of the rigorous trials & etc advocated by @Cajun & @Reganom, eh? But counciling = forbidden? Where do you come up with that?

Skinner Boxes aren't perfect, no test or study is. But what it does prove beyond any doubt is the lack of instincts in areas we once thought were purely instinctive. "Motherhood Insticnt" is still widely believed, even by feminists! lolz!

"Gayness has been around for ages" is NOT a valid arguement, since LOTS of things have also been which are NOT good for individuals or society as a whole, eh?
Gayness causes no harm IS valid, fyi...

Subushie
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 1643 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:37:33 AM
ROFLMAOF I would love to bump into Mr.Bachmann and show him how "uneducated" I really am; Good knight Christians are fu/cking retards.

SubstanceD
Male, 18-29, Australia
 76 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:40:41 AM
@JoexBro

Good point brining up the Greeks as well. They have a lot of homosexuality in their mythology too. Achilles and Patroclus come to mind as a homosexual mythological couple.

And if anyone says "Well that was thousands of years ago" you should probably take a look at the age of your holy scripture.

JoexBro
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 390 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:36:49 AM
I should really read through my posts before i post them and correct things

for each son born***

There is an increased likelihood of the 5th son being gay**


JoexBro
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 390 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:34:09 AM
for each son** born*

JoexBro
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 390 Posts
Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:32:52 AM
@ SubstanceD
It was actually even the Greeks before them that had wives but preferred sexual male partners, it was go to your buddies house, get naked and oiled up, wrestle and have some but sekz

Also there is research out that it shows it is a chemical the woman produces. Say she has 100 units of this, for each some born she loses some of this chemical. So if she has 5 sons the likelehood of the 5th son being gay. Of course sometimes the first son is gay. It definitely is not predominantly choice.

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