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 smalltowngrl
Female, 18-29, Midwest US
 10 Posts
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Monday, July 11, 2011 1:38:12 PM
Oh atheists do u think before you speak or do u just flap ur face lol. I've been a Christian (not naming denomination) all my life. By MY OWN study and choice. Seeing the ignorance in atheism. Anyways I have never used any of these as arguments they just are provocation points. For creationists as well as atheists. I don't see any rhyme or reason to this video. And just proves to me that the group that made this video has NO IDEA what they are saying. Most christians I know would laugh at this video as I did.... |
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 obhwfgirl
Female, 18-29, Western US
553 Posts
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Saturday, June 18, 2011 4:03:16 PM
I know this is an atheist video, but their dogmatic rhetoric irks me as much as religious rhetoric does. Scientific belief is not exclusive from spiritual belief -- just religious fundamentalism. |
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 Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9533 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 6:51:50 PM
But the question remains that everything had to of been created or evolved from something else and most atheists ignore that in their arguments.
No they don't. Atheists have no problem with the idea that everything around today evolved from something else. There's plenty of evidence for it and in any case evolution is not a god so obviously it's irrelevant to atheism. As for the first things, an atheist can answer "I don't know" and be fine with that. Abiogenesis is not evolution.
As for "Where did we come from, what did we start as?", those are two very different seperate questions, not one question. You're right that the first one can't be answered yet, but that's not a problem for an atheist. An atheist can say "I don't know".
everything had to have been created by something else.
That makes the existence of anything impossible. So obviously it isn't true. |
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 funnehkitteh
Male, 18-29, Europe
467 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 6:26:17 PM
lol i like the spell check roostery XD |
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funnehkitteh
Male, 18-29, Europe
467 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 6:25:27 PM
oh stfu christians and athiests stop being so roostery, religion will go away soon |
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cstrike2
Male, 13-17, Southern US
5 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 5:05:40 PM
heres what i want to ask then. Where did we come from, what did we start as? that question can never be answered by either side and no matter the theory everything had to have been created by something else. That argument can be placed on both sides, so there's no point arguing over it. Creationists believe a being created them and Atheists believe that we all started as cells, etc., whatever your belief is, and evolved etc. But the question remains that everything had to of been created or evolved from something else and most atheists ignore that in their arguments. I did find this very informational though. |
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 Pheeshy5
Male, 18-29, Western US
1316 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 11:18:52 AM
My favorite one is the Banana argument. It only proves evolution even more. Silly religious people and their nanners. |
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 BobbyJenkins
Female, 18-29, Europe
105 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 6:49:38 AM
Angillon, he's saying it IS a chicken egg. |
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Musuko42
Male, 18-29, Europe
2091 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 4:57:55 AM
@the_phantom
"why is the union of science and religion so hard to conceive?"
Science is a method of thinking in which one believes nothing until it is proven.
Religion is a method of thinking in which one believes in something unproven.
They are entirely antithetical. |
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 Plague555
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
562 Posts
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Monday, June 13, 2011 3:02:18 AM
OMFG i loooooooove the thermodynamics its like drating getting buzzed or something. omg i love it love it. Freaking people don't understand open/closed system. |
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Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9533 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 11:39:40 PM
Angilion: Creationists are not trying to destroy science, But atheists are trying to destroy religion by any means they can, including science.
Crakrjak, you are so ignorant of science, religion and Christian creationism that replying to you is worthwhile only to the extent that it amuses me to watch you making stuff up.
Which isn't much. |
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Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9533 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 11:37:33 PM
Plus, if the sun was the only source of energy for evolution, then there should be no evolution underground or in the deep sea, which is where most evolution occurs on the planet.
That might be true if "underground" and "in the deep sea" were places entirely removed from the atmosphere and surface of the planet, without any possibility of any connection between them. Which, obviously, isn't the case. |
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Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
9533 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 11:33:36 PM
And Angillion, you're wrong about the chicken-egg thing. The egg is formed by the parent so the egg the first chicken came from was formed by its mother and lacked several proteins that would make it a chicken egg, at least chemically and biologically speaking. It would be classified as belonging to whatever species immediately preceded chickens, some sort of African jungle fowl.
So why did this non-chicken egg hatch into a chicken? Or, to put it another way, why is this egg that hatched into a chicken not a chicken egg? |
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 Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:41:16 PM
then everything in it must be part of a closed system
Irrelevant. |
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Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
9438 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:34:30 PM
Therefore, using the creationist logic, which the video maker also uses, there should be no complex development anywhere within the universe.
Except that Earth is an open system interacting with other open systems within a closed system. So there will be a period of time in which complex life can arise from less complex life. |
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 davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
11674 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:21:22 PM
That threat was directed directly at people like you, Crakrjak.
For the scientifically literate, and those with time on their hands, I'll post this back-and-forth on basic mathematics, where CJ embarassed himself in public. Dude, I'm not going to do it any more. It's like kicking a puppy. |
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davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
11674 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:20:17 PM
Sorry to repost from an earlier post of mine on this thread, but I said previously: "Final thought (apologies for wall o' text): I have no problem with people being religious. I think what this video was trying to convey, with only partial success, is that when religion turns into creationism, then it has to smacked down. Specifically, when religion starts to encroach on the realm of science, then we have a problem. I know many religious people that accept the age of the universe, planet earth, evolution, and other demonstrably proven scientific principles. I have no beef with that, as I suspect most atheists don't. But when a subset of theists try to subvert science and teach children of the 21st century lies, that's when the faeces is gonna hit the oscillator, as they say.
Davy out." |
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davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
11674 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:14:06 PM
Ah, Crakrjak weighed in at last. Wondering where you were, buddy.
Creationists are not trying to destroy science
Oh yes, you, and people like you, most certainly are. Kentucky would be a good place to start, at the "Creation Museum".
God is all-powerful, he doesn't need to follow the rules or theories of science as perceived by mankind... "Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them, and said, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
Well, at least you're actually quoting the Bible this time, circular logic as it is. Last time you posted a quote from the Bible was:
John 8:32 "We cannot ransom our fellow-sinners, but we may point out Christ to them; while by his grace our lives may adorn his gospel, express our love, show our gratitude, and glorify his holy name."
Which is no-where in the bible. Good to see that you've read the book since. |
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 viczko
Male, 13-17, Canada
916 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:01:47 PM
Boom, roasted.
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 CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
14374 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:51:16 PM
Angilion: Creationists are not trying to destroy science, But atheists are trying to destroy religion by any means they can, including science.
Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. God is all-powerful, he doesn't need to follow the rules or theories of science as perceived by mankind.
That is where atheists fail, they try to use conditions, rules, theories, and hypothesis to try and box in 'God' and say that since we as humans can't do or conceive of 'a thing', then God can't either.
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them, and said, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. |
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 kingpong
Male, 18-29, Southern US
640 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:39:18 PM
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, if the universe is a closed system, which it is, then everything in it must be part of a closed system. Therefore, using the creationist logic, which the video maker also uses, there should be no complex development anywhere within the universe. However, if you recognize that organization requires work (and therefore creates entropy), then there is no issue.
Anyway, all the processes you mention create more entropy by the method of their creation than is removed by their organization. And the energy sources that fuel all these organizational processes has to be a part of the system, it also uses energy and therefore increases entropy. There is always an increase in energy, you just chose not to acknowledge where it happens. |
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 Schr0dinger
Male, 50-59, Western US
361 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:25:33 PM
Boring. |
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davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
11674 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:00:34 PM
"Earth can't be removed from the closed universal system" you say. We have a goddam Sun, just for starters.
Here's some non-closed systems, entirely off the top of my head, that are entirely within the closed system of the universe: I can make ice-cubes in my freezer, because I'm applying cold via freon. I can make a seed grow into a complex flower, because I'm applying sunlight and water. I can make a building, because I'm applying concrete and blueprints. All (abstract, but relevant) open systems.
To say that entropy prevails because the entire universe is a closed system is a stange concept. The Earth, as pointed out in the video, is NOT a closed system. Seems like a weird thing to pick up on, especially since you posit yourself as knowledgable on entropy and evolution...
I think where you went wrong was to use the term "creationist logic" in the same sentence. |
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davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
11674 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:59:17 PM
Cajun/davy The universe as a whole's entropy will always increase, so using the creationist logic, evolution should exist nowhere in the universe. It won't happen on earth, Mars, Venus, the Betelgeuse system, the Crab Nebula, anywhere. Earth can't be removed from the closed universal system, so it's not a valid point, no matter the conditions he places on it. If he can create impossible scenarios for his argument, then so can creationists.
Wait, you're making no sense whatsoever, especially for someone who claims to "understand entropy". Are you seriously suggesting that because the universe is a closed system, then everything within that universe is also a closed system? That there is no such thing as an open system, that has inputs and outputs, such a thing doesn't even exist? |
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kingpong
Male, 18-29, Southern US
640 Posts
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Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:36:51 PM
Cajun/davy The universe as a whole's entropy will always increase, so using the creationist logic, evolution should exist nowhere in the universe. It won't happen on earth, Mars, Venus, the Betelgeuse system, the Crab Nebula, anywhere. Earth can't be removed from the closed universal system, so it's not a valid point, no matter the conditions he places on it. If he can create impossible scenarios for his argument, then so can creationists. Plus, if the sun was the only source of energy for evolution, then there should be no evolution underground or in the deep sea, which is where most evolution occurs on the planet. He should have stated that the processes that cause evolution increase the net entropy of the universe, though it doesn't appear so. That statement doesn't even require outside energy to be applicable and is actually accurate. If he were to get into an argument with someone who actually knows what they are talking about, he will lose on that point. |
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