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Wait, What? Experts Claim That God Had A Wife?

Hits: 18422 | Rating: (2.8) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: fancylad
Page: 1 2 3 4 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
jeanpaul91
Male, 18-29, Europe
 128 Posts
Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:53:06 AM
oops paragraphed comments
see ya

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:07:15 PM
Also, you are moving the goalposts on the fly, which is never a good sign.

Friday, March 25, 2011 7:49:13 AM, you stated that there have been no changes in Christianity.

After a few of the many changes were pointed out, you moved the goalposts to "doctrinal changes to the bible itself" on Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:08:04 AM

Two very different statements.

I can point to doctrinal changes in currently existing English translations of the bible, let alone in Christianity.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:01:58 PM
thephoenix27:

According to your "voracity of believers" argument, every aspect of every religion must be true because they've all had devout believers, including ones willing to die. Not just every religion either - there have been and are today some areligious ideologies that some people believe in so strongly that they will die for them.

It's not a plausible argument.

Archaeologists and historians have not proved that your bible is an accurate history. They've proved that some of the places mentioned in it existed. That's not even close to being the same thing.

There have been many changes in the bible itself, including many that people have been willing to die over. Both those who accepted the changes and those who rejected them, so by your argument they must both be true even when they directly contradict each other.

jeanpaul91
Male, 18-29, Europe
 128 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 1:10:51 PM
oops paragraphed comments
see ya

thephoenix27
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 47 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:25:03 AM
"there is absolutely zero proof that Jesus actually existed. The only "proof" is conjecture and/or blatant lies. "

The proof that Jesus existed can be found in the voracity of his believers. Here you have people who believe something so strongly that they are consistently willing to die rather than renounce it. This dates back to within the time period where there would still be people alive who knew whether or not Jesus existed. If he hadn't existed the early Christians would have been relegated to a cult status and never really made a name for themselves.

Also, you should look at the arguments of Christianity's earliest objectors: the Jewish leaders. They don't argue that Jesus never existed, nor do they argue that he didn't die on a cross and was found missing from his tomb three days later. If Jesus never existed, why wouldn't they argue the point? It seems to me that would have put the nail in the coffin of Christianity.

thephoenix27
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 47 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:08:04 AM
"there have been many changes."

What you refer to are not doctrinal changes to the bible itself. Not to mention that people used to believe in a flat earth is a myth.

"...are you serious right now? the bible is probably one of the least verifiable pieces of historical literature...your credibility is lost."

What I was saying is that the bible has been carried down through the ages accurately. However, if you want to argue that the bible is not accurate as a historical document, aside from the theological aspects, you would be going against the majority of archaeologists and historians. The peoples and places mentioned in the bible have been found to be highly accurate.

"how do you know you're not the crackpot misinterpreting facts? Are you a theologian or just a person who goes to church every other sunday..sometimes..."

I don't claim to be a theologian. I just know what the bible teaches and what is inconsiste

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:45:23 AM
I'm not putting words in your mouth, Nageki. If you had an argument, you wouldn't need to pretend I am.

Anyone who cares can scroll down and see what was actually written by both of us.

Since you've stooped to that, the gloves are off. Here's what I really think, bluntly:


You referred to lack of belief (atheism) as belief. That is wrong.

You argued that rather than just believing what they're told is true, people should study stories that they're told are true (religious books) and you presented that as fairness and open-mindedness. That is wrong.

Your line of argument is basically the same as those creationists who argue that christian creationism should be taught as science in schools as if it was equal to evolution and say that's fair and equal.

I think your argument isn't even superficially plausible enough to be specious.

Nageki
Male, 30-39, Western US
 110 Posts
Saturday, March 26, 2011 2:29:22 AM
@Angilion
Quit putting words in my mouth, I was just trying to get people to look at what the do or do not believe and back it up with facts, or at least a good hard look at why the do or do not believe. I'm not bashing anyone, atheist or not.

AngryYouth
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 736 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 11:18:58 PM
Does anyone really care?

Arvz
Male, 18-29, Canada
 235 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 10:37:51 PM
Wow, Angilion pretty much just manhandled everybody on his own.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 5:29:42 PM
Recent geological evidence, not too mention recordings and artistic renderings from just about every culture around the world, is pointing towards the possibility of a world wide flood and a group of survivors who rode in a boat to overcome it.
You don't have to be a bible reader to believe that.



You don't have to be a bible reader, but you do have to be a reader of fanciful religious stories.

Your statement is completely untrue.

There is no geological evidence of a worldwide flood at any point in time, ever.

There is a lot of geological evidence of a lot of seperate floods in many parts of the world over a long period of time, which some people might pretend is the same thing in order to fabricate false evidence for their agenda.

As for geological evidence of a group of people in a boat, well that's just plain silly.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 5:22:21 PM
For the sake of accuracy:

The partial copy of Tacitus' work that we have now was written some time in the 11th century. It is claimed to be an accurate copy of an accurate copy of an accurate copy all the way back to when Tacitus wrote it in ~115AD. It might well be - scribes were trained to make accurate copies of writings and the references Tacitus makes to christianity are not the sort of thing you'd expect christians to add in later. Although particularly devious ones might have had it done, maybe.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 5:15:37 PM
Roman historical documents mark the existence of a man in Jerusalem who claimed himself as King, and that they crucified the man.


No, they don't.

You're referring to the history written by Tacitus (whether you know it or not).

There are a few issues regarding that:

i) It was written much later, probably ~115AD.

ii) Tacitus was reporting on what some people believed, which is not necessarily the same as what is true.

iii) Tacitus wrote morality tales as much as history. If you read his work, that leaps out at you. It is not an objective statement of facts.

iv) Tacitus did not write that Chrestus had proclaimed himself king.

v) "Roman historical documents" strongly implies more than one document along the lines of a census, tax record, court record, etc. There is nothing like that at all.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 5:02:21 PM
Nageki:

Given that you think that lack of belief is belief, maybe you should take your own advice and do some studying.

If there was any reason to question my lack of belief, I would. That would require evidence, not merely some utterly unsubstantiated stories that some people have told me are true. Your advice doesn't hold up.

Angilion
Male, 40-49, Europe
 10987 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 4:56:37 PM
thephoenix27:

I can't tell if you're joking or if you're serious. Comments such as

"The truth of the matter is that there have been no 'changes'." [in Christianity]

and

"In fact, the bible is one of the most heavily sourced and historically verifiable books in all of history."

are obviously so ludicrously inconsistent with reality that they are jokes, but you don't seem to be joking.

Nageki
Male, 30-39, Western US
 110 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 3:40:29 PM
Wake up everyone, atheist and christian alike and question your beliefs... Just believing whatever someone tells you is idiotic and dumb. Prove to yourself with actual study what is the truth and what is not, you WILL be surprised by what you find. I double dog dare ya.

Justin9235
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 1582 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 2:13:45 PM
Mad theist Trypno, is mad. Nice attempt to bullpoo your way through a debate. But most atheists who actually debate their beliefs, actually research both sides. Theists use stories from an ancient book and pretend like it's fact.. then when asked for proof, they shut up. Ask us for proof.. we present it.. with logical reasoning and science.

Fail theist is fail

skullgrin
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 915 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 11:16:58 AM
Also, I think its funny that you ask me to do some research when I am quite certain I have done much more research on the topic than you have. This isn't my first Christianity debate, I've been correcting peoples false beliefs for a long time now.

skullgrin
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 915 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 11:15:11 AM
can you provide *credible* links.....


there is absolutely zero proof that jesus actually existed. The only "proof" is conjecture and/or blatant lies.

DJDoubleb
Male, 30-39, Eastern US
 381 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 10:59:49 AM
Trypno, can you provide links, I'd like to read that stuff, plz.

Trypno
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 473 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 10:42:12 AM
also @skullgrin
Roman historical documents mark the existence of a man in Jerusalem who claimed himself as King, and that they crucified the man. However in Roman times this man who has come to be known as Jesus in the Greek barely made a splash among Roman historians, who barely bothered to document his existence in relation to the grand goings on of the Roman Empire.
How about you actually do some research instead of spouting off random atheist dogma that you read off the internet.

Trypno
Male, 18-29, Midwest US
 473 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 10:37:08 AM
@skullgrin
Recent geological evidence, not too mention recordings and artistic renderings from just about every culture around the world, is pointing towards the possibility of a world wide flood and a group of survivors who rode in a boat to overcome it.
You don't have to be a bible reader to believe that.

skullgrin
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 915 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 9:09:39 AM
(cont from previous post)

...are you serious right now? the bible is probably one of the least verifiable pieces of historical literature...your credibility is lost.

/waiting for that moses parting the sea verification, the great flood, jesus' existence...

skullgrin
Male, 18-29, Eastern US
 915 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 9:07:28 AM
"The truth of the matter is that there have been no 'changes'. All this article represents is one crackpot and a misinterpretation of the facts."


there have been many changes.

the belief that the world is flat, priests being able to marry, the acceptance of life on other worlds, even evolution is starting to be more accepted by the church...

how do you know you're not the crackpot misinterpreting facts? Are you a theologian or just a person who goes to church every other sunday..sometimes...


And let me clear something up: the apocrypha were not included in the bible due to their being incongruous with the rest of the scriptures and their dubious origin. The books that were included were already widely used in the early churches and their origin was verifiable. In fact, the bible is one of the most heavily sourced and historically verifiable books in all of history."


wow...are you serious ri

Pheeshy5
Male, 18-29, Western US
 1316 Posts
Friday, March 25, 2011 8:46:02 AM
@DJDoubleb TLDNR

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