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Liberal Blogger: Who's to blame for the war?

Hits: 15265 | Rating: (2.5) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: 5Cats
Page: 1 2 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
r66tramp
Male, 40-49, Canada
 678 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 9:07:08 PM
"I'm referring to the war and subsequent occupation actually."

Dot your I's and cross your T's! That NOTE of yours should have been added in subtext.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 7:48:07 PM
That seems odd as WWII is clocked in the history books as a six year event.


I'm referring to the war and subsequent occupation actually.

Lardcarcass
Male, 40-49, Western US
 251 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 7:25:36 PM
Baalthazaq,
That is a very nice set of statistics you bring to the discussion. I don't know where they came from, but I do not even dispute the latter ones. However, when I left in March 2004 nobody wanted us to leave. Correction Saddam's suppporters and Al Qaida wanted us to leave. The other 70% of the population were happy we came and just wanted clean drinking water, electricity more than 2 hours a day, security, and jobs.
I am quite sure no Kurds took part in any of those surveys, though, and not many Shia, at least not until after Muqtada got going.
Again, my point is really that, though I believe it is a great thing to support and even fight for people who are being oppressed, here at the house, we don't really know what's going on with "the people", i.e. which people, how many, how bad is it for them, etc. especially if we only hear from a few with their own views.

BTW, I have an agal, too. I don't know how to spell agal, but I have one.

r66tramp
Male, 40-49, Canada
 678 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 6:40:11 PM
"So three or four" "seem to believe" "there is a chance of" "such as"

That is taken from the first paragraph alone! I could not read further. Pure rubbish! How can the world take you serious if you do not know how to read and write?

r66tramp
Male, 40-49, Canada
 678 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 6:16:58 PM
"During WWII: it took the west (starting with Europe) ten years to get Germany under control."

That seems odd as WWII is clocked in the history books as a six year event.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 4:38:54 PM
@davymid

Ah gotcha. You can also blame him for trashing their infrastructure as well.

davymid
Male, 30-39, Europe
 12073 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 2:50:53 PM
@ Cajun: He's referring to Bush Sr, and the first Gulf War.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 2:20:00 PM
@osirasecond

I suppose not.
On the other hand, are sure about that king? Because last I checked he was a king before America even existed.

osirisascend
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 2998 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 1:39:59 PM
@ Cajun: If King George the First had let us continue on to Baghdad, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. Last time around, the Iraqi people WANTED us to help them... and we hung them out to dry... Saddam subsequently began to massacre the Kurds in the North.

We hung the Iraqi people out to dry the first time. Of course they didn't trust us for sh*t the second time around.

If you were Iraqi and knew our previous track record in your country, would YOU trust us?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 1:28:20 PM
I mean shouldn't the second time around been easier?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 1:27:06 PM
Here's another comparison:

During WWII: it took the west (starting with Europe) ten years to get Germany under control. They were an empire with a popular leader and an absolute threat to the world.

Now fast forward to the second Gulf War. Iraq was far from a threat (nope no massive WMD program sorry Bush-Kool-Aid drinkers), with a VERY UNPOPULAR leader, and very far from being an empire. It takes the United States with some backing from Europe almost 10 years to get Iraq under control.

Canoas
Male, 18-29, Europe
 429 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 9:51:23 AM
@Baalthazaq
And how many people did you speak with? 2000? 3000? and from all over the country or just your neighbours?
I love it how statistics just fall from the sky into people's heads.

osirisascend
Male, 40-49, Eastern US
 2998 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 6:56:17 AM
@ Baalthazaq: As an American who has lived (Iran), worked (UAE), and unfortunately fought in SW Asia, thank you for as always, weighing in with reason, and FACTS. People on this little water-covered rock need to start showing a little more common sense.

Our American media leaves much to be desired. With all of the upheaval, and winds of revolution blowing across the world, our media decides to concentrate on Lindsay Lohan, and Charlie Sheen?

It took a disaster with planet-wide implications to break away from that?

Disgusting.

For the record, you're right on the money about Bahrain. The Saudis? (You won't point the finger, but I will) In Bahrain shooting civilians? Where is the world outrage? We're certainly not hearing it here.

BTW, the new profile pic suits you. I approve.

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 6:15:39 AM
Lardcarcass:
My opinion isn't exactly garnered from major American news sources. You might be able to tell from my profile pic. It's from speaking to Iraqis.

However, skipping anecdotes and going on the facts here:
2004: 92% of Iraqis see Americans as Occupiers.
2005: 82% Strongly opposed to presence of troops. <1% think that US-UK is helping to improve security.
2006: 95% believe the security situation has deteriorated since the arrival of US forces.
2007: 82% express lack of confidence in Coalition forces. 69% thinking the US occupation has exacerbated the situation.
Etc.


Overall 25% view Bush Favourably. 55% Unfavourably.
Saddam is 10% Favourable to 80% unfavourable.

The numbers are in already. It looks like you're quite wrong.

SvampeBob
Male, 18-29, Europe
 3088 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 4:48:46 AM
TL;DR

Lardcarcass
Male, 40-49, Western US
 251 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 2:48:03 AM
...listening to what others report.

Lardcarcass
Male, 40-49, Western US
 251 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 2:45:47 AM
Cajun247,
If I could borrow part of your quote for a moment, "...invade a country (Iraq) for it's people (who didn't want it),..." is a falacy believed by those willing to accept the rubbish fed to us by the media, who, no matter how professional they may profess or even truly attempt to be, always write a story with an agenda.
My opinion is based on first hand experience rolling around the Sunni Triangle talking to people in the first year we were there. What the vast majority told me was "Bush good. Bush good. Saddam shoes."
(In Iraq showing someone the bottom of your shoe is the equivilant of the bird in the U.S.)
Of course, that wasn't the feeling of the people in the social circles of minority who were doing the oppressing.
To get to my point, I'm all for supporting people who are willing to stand up to break the shackles of oppression, no matter who the president is. However, we really don't know complex situation on the ground just by

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 12:12:06 AM
[quote">Claiming you wanted to invade a country (Iraq) for it's people (who didn't want it), against the world's advice (UN said no), and claiming it could have a domino effect of removing dictators across the middle east (which it didn't).[/quote">

Ah yes brings back pleasant memories.

Now in THAT case the "domino effect" was opposite of what we wanted. Yet communism has suffered one massive reversal after another.

Nonetheless, in both cases the French of all people told us NOT to go in.

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Monday, March 21, 2011 12:03:03 AM
Incidentally I'm also against certain Arab bodies sending troops into Bahrain to suppress protesters.

It's all about applying thought to individual circumstances. That's not hypocritical.

What would be hypocritical is this:
1) Claiming you wanted to invade a country (Iraq) for it's people (who didn't want it), against the world's advice (UN said no), and claiming it could have a domino effect of removing dictators across the middle east (which it didn't).

2) When all your stated reasons are now TRUE in the case of Libya, and NOW when every one of those things is ACTUALLY TRUE, you're against it.

That is hypocrisy.

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Sunday, March 20, 2011 11:27:04 PM
"I can always tell from the description, before I click, which links were submitted by 5Cats. He hasn't let me down yet."

Agreed. 100% hit rate so far.

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Sunday, March 20, 2011 11:25:39 PM
Hi. Arab here.

I was against the Bush Wars.
I am in favour of attacking the Libyan government.

Just like I'm in favour of drating ladies when they ask, but not in favour of drating them when they ask me not to.

This is not a confusing concept.
Invading lands against the will of their people: Bad
Invading lands with the support of the lands people: Awesome.

The Libyan situation is everything the Republicans pretended the Iraq was.

5Cats
Male, 50-59, Canada
 24927 Posts
Sunday, March 20, 2011 7:35:18 PM
vv Icanhascheezburger @SmilinSam? It's my daily injection of teh cute!

SmilinSam
Female, 18-29, Eastern US
 3603 Posts
Sunday, March 20, 2011 7:27:15 PM
the guy that wrote this article seems to be barely literate. so i have no problem disregarding everything he has to say, and go laugh at the pics of cats now...

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10238 Posts
Sunday, March 20, 2011 6:31:49 PM
[quote">"Ok Momar, cut that out or else!"[/quote">

Obama did say something to that effect

bigbangbilly
Male, 13-17, Eastern US
 705 Posts
Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:22:20 PM
Based on the description that sounded like an extremist conservative.

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