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Allen West Takes Questions From CAIR

Hits: 14962 | Rating: (3.0) | Category: News & Politics | Added by: CrakrJak
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 Next >   Jump to: Bottom    Last Post
Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Saturday, June 04, 2011 2:57:41 PM
Cajun:
Btw, that last post was in response to:

"BTW what about Vol 7, Book 62, Number 88, who's that attributed to?"

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Saturday, June 04, 2011 2:56:56 PM
Bah. Sorry Cajun. Hate to reply this late... it's ages old and only just re-found this thread.

On the off chance you ever revisit this, very good find:
Urwa's brother (Ursa) is the narrator. Which to be entirely fair could be argued is a second source, because he didn't *necessarily* get it from his brother.

Any attempts to begin the chain higher up would be speculation, even if it would be pretty probable speculation.

CoyoteKing
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 2994 Posts
Friday, February 25, 2011 5:43:31 PM
i don't know who allen west is but i like him. he's not pandering to the bullpoo ignorant "patriotic" (if you can really call them that) americans that spit this bullpoo day and day out because they don't have the insight to self educate themselves. props to him for not putting up with this "far right wing christian based" hate speach that is getting spread around america these days. the guy is an ignorant citizen and should not be allowed to vote in the next election (and in case you are wondering, i actually lean more right than left, so i'm hating on my own side if you will)

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:39:40 PM
And as I mentioned earlier, arab and persian media have smeared American troops as mass murderers, mosque defilers, and even proselytizers


...yes it's all despicable nonetheless.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:36:03 PM
Well considering that Yigal Carmon is a former colonel in Israeli intelligence and an Acting head and advisor on Arab affairs, it says a lot actually.

If you don't think MEMRI doesn't spin the facts think again:

Same article
Nor does MEMRI feature stories about Palestinian suffering, Israeli dissenters, moderate Islamists, Christians in Arab governments or the growing nonviolent movement against the apartheid wall in the Occupied Territories, especially around Bal'in.



Just did a search: found nothing.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:20:54 PM
Cajun: Sounds not unlike what America did to influence the Germans and French in WWII. They were hired to influence Palestinian opinion, and apparently it backfired because Palestine is now controlled by Hamas. It says nothing about MEMRI or even mistranslations.

And as I mentioned earlier, arab and persian media have smeared American troops as mass murderers, mosque defilers, and even proselytizers (AWE, SHOCK, GASP).

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:23:00 PM
[quote">they see it as an occupation of muslim land and thus evil[/quote">

Well I certainly don't see a lot of Muslim countries itching to go to war with Israel. All I think of is Palestine. To say that an Arab who wrote a paper about Zionism with anti-Semetic undertones/leanings is a hasty generalization. As for the IDF planting stories. Here's the article they cited in my comment.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:42:04 PM
Cajun: Zionism is equated to Fascism by most muslims, they see it as an occupation of muslim land and thus evil. They use the term like a curse word, not unlike the KKK uses the n-word or the way McCarthy used the term communist.

As for the IDF planting fake stories, That is akin to Bush planting explosive in the WTC buildings, It's poppycock.

If a muslim calls you a zionist he does not mean that in a good way.

From your own Wiki link - In 1975, the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution that designated Zionism as a "a form of racism and racial discrimination". The resolution was repealed in 1991. Within the context of the Arab–Israeli conflict, Zionism is viewed by critics as a system that fosters apartheid and racism.


Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:35:17 PM
Hey you overlooked this part:

According to a 2005 article in Israel's Ha'aretz, the Israeli Defense Forces plants fake stories in the Arab media, which it then translates and tries to retail to Israeli journalists. How much of MEMRI is simply an extension of such IDF operations?


Now isn't that an indictment from within Israel's own borders?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:32:21 PM
[quote">a muslim professor that claims MEMRI mistranslated his anti-semitic writings[/quote">

Oh wow, since when is writing an article about Zionism anti-Semetic? You might as well claim that the people who wrote this article are anti-semites.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:15:20 PM
Let's not pay attention to the liars then shall we?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:09:27 PM
Yes, The photo of the boy is some sort of stunt. But who in their right mind uses a boy like that to make money ?


Is it because of Sharia law? No, ergo Red Herring. Further, the issue is HOW IS IT INTERPRETED. The Taliban (noses) and Iran (hanging) have very strict interpretations of Sharia law, and in Iran it's enforced rather arbitrarily. In conclusion, it's a lot more complicated than what those pictures can tell you.

Well then, That made me wonder. Just how much English speaking media is mistranslated into arabic, turns out it happens quite a lot.


Agreed, it's all despicable nonetheless. But if we're to set an example then we need focus on the real sources of the problem instead of painting an entire group with the same ugly color.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:41:03 AM
Cajun: You need to re-read the definition of 'Red Herring' it does not just mean 'misdirection' it means "a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue."

Since the photos are relevant and true, It's not a 'Red Herring'.

Yes, The photo of the boy is some sort of stunt. But who in their right mind uses a boy like that to make money ?

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 10:28:42 AM
Cajun, So you link to a muslim professor that claims MEMRI mistranslated his anti-semitic writings and some left-wing ideologues that insist it's propaganda. Boy where have I heard that accusation before, Oh yeah I remember now, It's the same accusations that the same sort of people make against Fox News and Sky News all the time.

Well then, That made me wonder. Just how much English speaking media is mistranslated into arabic, turns out it happens quite a lot.

Video of planes and helicopter killing taliban fighters are routinely said to be killing civilians. When weapon caches were blown up, arab media proclaimed innocent family homes were destroyed. When damage done to mosques by suicide bombers was shown, it was labeled as 'American forces destroy mosque'.

So if you are going to use the 'mistranslation' accusation, Please also be aware that out right lies are being purported in arab and persian media as well.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:17:51 AM
Whoever made that montage you posted took the very first photo out of context.

It was a magic trick.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:37:05 AM
Why do they continue to cut off hands, noses, and heads, as well as stone people ? What are you saying, that they are all ignorant and mislead


Who?

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:08:22 AM
because you know how dangerous expressing such an opinion can be in your part of the world



Really man?

If it were so dangerous he wouldn't be a MODERATOR right now. Your entire comment FAILS so much.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 7:05:22 AM
So because it's ran by Jews you find it unreliable, How very anti-semitic of you


That's a hasty generalization and ad hominem in one Crakr.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 6:59:02 AM
[quote">A 'Red Herring' requires a falsehood[/quote">

No it doesn't it, the goal is to divert attention away from the real issue. You were saying "look at these people who've suffered horribly because of Sharia law", when it requires more than pictures to know what's going on. As Baal stated it's a crap argument.

As Baal just pointed out it's a false argument.

And as far as MEMRI TV is concerned I just looked it up and is actually run by former members of the intelligence branch of the Israeli Defense Force. They've also been cited for numerous mistranslation scandals.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:12:27 AM
Cajun: A 'Red Herring' requires a falsehood, Are you saying those pictures aren't real ?

They are real, and your 'Red Herring' accusation is it's own 'Red Herring'.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:09:36 AM
The fact remains if muslims not unlike you didn't believe those texts, then why are they still following them ? Why do they continue to cut off hands, noses, and heads, as well as stone people ? What are you saying, that they are all ignorant and mislead ? Are you saying your fellow muslims brothers are going to hell because they don't believe as you ?

I don't think you would say they are, because you know how dangerous expressing such an opinion can be in your part of the world.

CrakrJak
Male, 40-49, Midwest US
 16144 Posts
Thursday, February 24, 2011 12:01:25 AM
Baalthazaq: So because it's ran by Jews you find it unreliable, How very anti-semitic of you.

That doesn't change the fact that the video they record and translate is accurate and it is a trustworthy source despite your accusations.

They regularly mistranslate things like "The Jews are killing us" as "We should annihilate the Jews", they translated "I'll draw a picture" as "I'll shoot them".


That's bullcrap, News agencies outside of Israel have their own Arabic translators and confirm translations before they air them.

Baal: So far you stated things as fact that you hadn't checked yourself, You layer on the bullcrap to deny things and expect people to trust you because you know we can't read your language. Make multiple accusations of mistranslation like a broken record. And then make the accusation of prejudice when all else fails.

Cajun247
Male, 18-29, Southern US
 10116 Posts
Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:14:07 PM
[quote">Goddamn what a poo argument Cajun, whatever prompted you to use it?[/quote">

Crakr's assertion with his photo montage was a Red Herring. I even said so in my first picture post, ...and was even demonstrated by subsequent comments.

BTW what about Vol 7, Book 62, Number 88, who's that attributed to?

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:56:36 PM
Also:

*Crakr posts some pictures*
*Cajun posts some pictures*
Crakr: "I could probably find pleasant looking pictures of North Korea and Somalia if I tried, but that doesn't mean they are pleasant places to live now does it?"

No, it doesn't. You're right Crakr. Goddamn what a poo argument Cajun, whatever prompted you to use it?

Oh that's right, Crakr used it the very previous post... every single time Crakr. Your arguments are the steamiest pile of feces I have ever seen, and even you acknowledge this when they support any position that isn't the one you're supporting.

It's prejudice and hypocrisy Crakr. Plain and simple. You accept the argument because it supports your position, and when the *same argument* doesn't support it, you show you know the argument you made was bullpoo all along.

Baalthazaq
Male, 18-29, Asia
 4753 Posts
Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:44:22 PM
So, so far Crakr you've:
Posted a quote from Urwa. Had it disputed.
Found several books with the Urwa quote in it, and used them as a "new source".
Posted a wiki link with excerpts you haven't checked, but still posted them up as new information.

Each time you've moved a further step away from the original source, and you accuse ME of obfuscating?

You have LITERALLY tried to hide your quote under further and further layers of references to the same point by the same person.

First: Urwa, then -> Iraqi's who studied under Urwa -> Hadiths quoting Urwa and the Iraqis -> Books quoting the Hadiths -> A wiki link quoting the books.

While I'm busy stripping away the layers (and doing the only research into your own links), you're busy adding them. That *is the very definition* of obfuscation.

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